Customary and reasonable fees - 90 days

[Adios]

I just opened up membership to appraisers a few months ago. Appraisers may join. All in all there are 260 members. More than half are chief appraisers of banks. Vendors may join as well. Those you see listed on the site are dues paying members. Some of the speakers are not members just invited guest speakers.

Attendees have a strong voice. As a group we have had amazing access to policy makers.It is my firm belief that we won't find solutions without putting all stakeholders in a room together.

As someone suggested this part of Title 14 seems to be fairly straightforward. The surveys can be done as often as the market demands.

It would seem some appraisers are looking for a conspiracy where there is none.

No doubt there will be some AMC, some lender who will fail to comply. The regulator is the new CFPD and your State Atty General.

I would think that as a lender/AMC they will look for you to indemnify them on reasonable and customary. It wouldn't be prudent to accept an assignment and then dial up your AG and ask them to go after the client. The penalties are onerous and I doubt many are looking for the headline risk.

No doubt the fees will get passed on to the consumer. I am quite comfortable with that. The price being paid for faulty appraisals has been a hefty one. Competent appraisers deserve to be paid and work independently without pressure. We could use a little enforcement to rid ourselves of the bad actors. None of this will happen overnight but it would seem progress is being made.

Joan Trice

 

[Elliott]

From Wiki,

In the United States and Canada

"In the United States, price fixing can be prosecuted as a criminal federal offense under section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.[2] Prosecutions may be handled by the U.S. Department of Justice or by the Federal Trade Commission. Many State Attorneys General also bring antitrust cases and have antitrust offices, such as Virginia, New York, and California. Private individuals or organizations can bring their own lawsuits for triple damages for antitrust violations and also recover attorneys fees..[3]
Colluding on price amongst competitors, also known as horizontal price fixing, is viewed as a per se violation of the Sherman Act regardless of the market impact or alleged efficiency of the action. In 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that vertical price fixing by a manufacturer and its retailers, also known as retail price maintenance, is not a per se violation.
Under American law, exchanging prices among competitors can also violate the antitrust laws. This includes exchanging prices with either the intent to fix prices or if the exchange affects the prices individual competitors set. Proof that competitors have shared prices can be used as part of the evidence of an illegal price fixing agreement.[4] Experts generally advise that competitors avoid even the appearance of agreeing on price.[5]
In Canada, it is an indictable criminal offence under section 45 of the Competition Act. Bid rigging is considered a form of price fixing and is illegal in both the United States (s.1 Sherman Act) and Canada (s.47 Competition Act). In the United States, agreements to fix, raise, lower, stabilize, or otherwise set a price are illegal per se.[6] It does not matter if the price agreed upon is reasonable or for a good or altruistic cause; or if the agreement is explicit and formal or unspoken and tacit. In the United States, price-fixing also includes agreements to hold prices the same, discount prices (even if based on financial need or income), set credit terms, agree on a price schedule or scale, adopt a common formula to figure prices, banning price advertising, or agreeing to adhere to prices that one announces.[7] Although price fixing usually means sellers agreeing on price, it can also include agreements among buyers to fix the price at which they will buy products."

 

[DonRico]

Thanks for responding Joan.

I'm trusting that you know our issues and will use your platform to make them known. I would like to know if alamode was asked to join and declined the invite, or what. He has a wealth of unbiased fee data that would make a compelling case.

 

[Mile High Trout]

Great commentary.

If I may please suggest:

What exactly is the problem with AMC's operating on a fixed per order budget?

Were the low fee bid to pass savings to the consumer, the market would be working correctly. Without the passing of product cost savings, it's simply price gouging by the middle man in a closed market controlled by a limited few persons.

By taking control of the flow of good and services, as well as the payouts for those goods and services, the AMC's have created a closed market. The AMC's require their fee to be taken from the appraisers fee, to maintain their proprietary flow of goods business model.

Separate the fees and force AMC's to remit the appraisers invoice directly to the bank!

 

[KenAZ]

You're no newbie...quit trying to be sensible and reasonable. For that matter, knock off the logical and informed thing also.

I will try to behave better

 

[KenAZ]

Separate the fees and force AMC's to remit the appraisers invoice directly to the bank!

Because of the fact that they did not recently separate the fees, the AMC's have screwed themselves. Now reasonable and customary is what they were charging for appraisal services. Now they have motivation to change, but I really don't care anymore.

If they refuse to separate the fees, then Customary and Reasonable is what the clients have been paying them for appraisal services.

If they do separate the fees, they will be forced to compete with other AMC's for the lowest AMC fees. Most full fee AMC's have been surviving on $70 or so per appraisal. Now the big box AMC's will need to cut that to $35. At least they can make up the difference in volume !!!!

 

[Bearslide]

Thanks for responding Joan.

I'm trusting that you know our issues and will use your platform to make them known. I would like to know if alamode was asked to join and declined the invite, or what. He has a wealth of unbiased fee data that would make a compelling case.

I'd appreciate an answer to that, as well. The alamode fee data comes from appraisers working at customary and reasonable fees, paid by clients seeking quality reports. That data should NOT be left out of the mix. If an invitation has not been extended, it should be - in the interests of fair representation.

 

[Karl]

I just opened up membership to appraisers a few months ago. (At a cost?) Appraisers may join. All in all there are 260 members. More than half are chief appraisers of banks. Vendors may join as well. Those you see listed on the site are DUES paying members.

Everyone seems to be looking for an angle to get the little bit of money some that are still Appraising have.

 

[NC Appraising]

Karl,

Way to keep this professional. Congrats, you won the prize for taking the first personal jab. Asking questions is one thing....

 

[Mr Rex]

So, did the VA just PFA their fee schedule? I suspect not.