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Debris in crawl space FHA

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Paradiddle

Freshman Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
South Carolina
How do you handle debris (loose boards, old paint cans, scattered trash) in the crawl space? It is an FHA assignment and therefore subject to any and all ridiculous and non-ridiculous standards listed in the HUD 4000.1. Reason I ask is that I was called out for this by FHA in 2023 and advised that it does not matter whether or not the debris in under a manufactured home or stick built home. Then they made me take a 7 hour class.
 
I'd note there is debris under the house, boards, old paint cans, and scattered trash and that FHA has advised that it doesn't matter. (I've always been willing to throw other people under the bus).
 
Who made you take a 7 hour course....
 
Crawl space observation language in the HUD Handbook has changed and no longer references debris.

l. Crawl Space Observation Requirements (02/16/21)
The Appraiser must visually observe areas of the crawl space and notify the Mortgagee of the deficiency of MPR and MPS when the crawl space does not satisfy any of the following criteria:

The floor joists must be sufficiently above ground level to provide access for maintaining and repairing ductwork and plumbing.
If the crawl space contains any system components, the minimum required vertical clearance is 18 inches between grade and the bottom of the floor joists.
The crawl space must be properly vented unless the area is mechanically conditioned.
The crawl space must be free of trash, debris, and vermin.
The crawl space must not be excessively damp and must not have any water pooling. If moisture problems are evident, a vapor barrier and/or prevention of water infiltration must be required.
If there is evidence of a deficient condition, the Appraiser must report this condition and render the appraisal subject to inspection and repairs, if necessary.

In cases where access through a scuttle is limited, and the Appraiser cannot fully enter the crawl space, the insertion of at least the head and shoulders of the Appraiser will suffice. If there is no access to the crawl space but there is evidence of a deficient condition (such as water-stained subflooring or smell of mold), the Appraiser must report this condition and the Mortgagee must have a qualified third party perform an inspection.

If there is no access, the Appraiser must report the lack of accessibility to the area in the appraisal report. There is no requirement to cut open walls, ceilings or floors.

Not all houses (especially historic houses) with a vacant area beneath the flooring are considered to have a crawl space; it may be an intentional void, with no mechanical systems and no intention or reason for access.

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l. Crawl Space Observation Requirements (04/18/2023)
The Appraiser must visually observe areas of the crawl space to the extent these areas are safely accessible. The Appraiser is not required to disturb insulation or move items that obstruct access or visibility.

If the observation reveals evidence of a deficient condition (such as excessive dampness, insufficient ventilation, or smell of mold, etc.), the Appraiser must render the appraisal subject to inspection or subject to repairs, in compliance with the Repair Requirements.

The Appraiser must report when the crawl space is not safely accessible. The Appraiser must complete the appraisal subject to inspection by a qualified third party only if further observation of inaccessible crawl space area is necessary to determine compliance with MPR and MPS.
 
Reason I ask is that I was called out for this by FHA in 2023 and advised that it does not matter whether or not the debris in under a manufactured home or stick built home.
Just to clear..... you were told it does not matter...or, you told them it does not matter?
 
Haven't done an FHA in over 20 years but back then I'd make it subject to crawl space clean up. Bricks, conc. blocks, didn't care. Trash, debris, wood pieces, etc., especially anything that could attract termites had to go.

Looks like, per CG MN, it hasn't changed.

Not sure of your issue. Did you require clean up or did you fail to require clean up?
 
Looks like, per CG MN, it hasn't changed.
Maybe look again! That isn't how I read it. The first half of his post is the former HUD manual, referencing debris, and the second have is the current HUD manual, lacking any mention of debris.
 
What about the hazardous certification? What's in those paint cans?
 
What kind of paint and or stain? Latex? Maybe oil?

Like Elliot said, I would take a photo and make mention that's all I'm saying....
 
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