Does anyone else shun "collect at the door"?

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Hey Jo Ann

Make sure you read my post over on AI about the client...you're not going to like it.... 8O 8O


I'll post some excerpts below for you to read.


Since the majority of residential transactions are not federally-related (FNMA/FHLMC/FHA/VA) I would assume that the FIRREA stuff about the lender engaging the appraiser has no force of "law?" Anyone can engage the appraiser on a non-federally related transaction?

Now here's how I look at it and let's throw this around...All of the residential appraisal forms have a box for "Lender/Client." So to me, the lender is the lender and the client is the client. Could be two different entities. If the borrower orders the appraisal and pays at the door, they are the engager and thus the Client??? Thoughts???

So the URAR, 2055. 2065 boxes would read:

ABC Mortgage/Mr. Smith

The lender is ABC Mortgage. The client is Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith then controls the report and where it goes. Seems to solve all of our problems if the report is worded properly upfront.

In all truth, this client confidentiality BS is nothing more than a way for lenders, primarily BC lenders, to use USPAP to take advantage of marginal credit borrowers. I'm surprised the feds haven't jumped in on this already as part of predatory lending. The A paper borrowers usually don't need to switch lenders because they don't get shafted. The BC paper borrowers get royally taken to the cleaners and when they find out, they move around for a better deal. You can't blame them. It's called shopping for the best deal. We all do that. Why have obstacles? All we do with Client Confidentiality is help them get taken to the cleaners by staying with the first lender or paying for an appraisal twice.

Me, I say if the lender tells the borrower to order the appraisal in a non-federally related transaction, then they're no longer the client. They've given up that right. And you/appraiser, can float the report around to as many lenders as the client requests until he closes the loan. Thoughts? Hey, I could be wrong.



Ben

 

[Richard Carlsen]

I'm surprised y'all didn't come up the most obvious reason a lender wants you to COD.

It is pure and simple that they do not have enough net worth in their company to handle other people’s money. Here in Michigan, I think it is a net worth of $50,000 before you can charge an application fee.

They are not being kind to the borrower. They just aren’t worth enough to not be violating Michigan state law if they take money up front.

 

[Steve Owen]

Ben, whether these things are federally related or not is really a moot point because Fannie and the investors tend to treat them as if they were. With most of the lenders I've worked for, the secondary market investor would promptly reject the appraisal if it was made out the way you suggest. Yeah, telling the borrower, I have to talk to the LO and he has to be the client even thought you called me and are paying is kind of a bureaucratic cop out, but that's the way they seem to want it. The borrower goes along because they really have no choice.

Richard, that's probably true in most states, but it really doesn't matter. I think that in a lot of COD cases, the lender is an e-lender or other foreign entity who just doesn't want to hassle with collecting from the borrower. I don't care what the reason for the COD is. All I care about is whether I get paid for my work. Like I said, cash talks, the rest walks.

 

[Blue1]

HEY! I've got a novel idea!!! If the borrower can have the appraisal in their name and then "shop around" why don't they order (and pay for) the appraisal FIRST? Then (with appraisal in hand) take it (and their bad credit) to several different "b" lenders! Seems to me that's the way it oughta work.......but then I'm just an Appraiser :roll:

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

Ben V. Have you read the FAQ for Sept on Appraisal Foundation webstite? As I read it, I pictured Ben V sending emails out by the thousands, causing the foundation to write a FAQ. Check it out. However, even though Fannie Mae and HUD are not federally related transactions, I will still operate under the theory that the client is the lender that orders the appraisal and the borrower is just being a messanger person in paying for the appraisal. I figure I wil stay out of less trouble that way. If the borrower gets a judge to write a court order that I have to print out a copy for borrower, I'll do it, but in the mean time I'll hide behind FIRREA. The borrower paying somebody for an appraisal, is just the cost of doing business--if you want money, you have to spend money and you won't necessarily get anything or something worthwhile for the money spent--but that is the way life goes.

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

If the borrower can have the appraisal in their name and then "shop around" why don't they order (and pay for) the appraisal FIRST? Then (with appraisal in hand) take it (and their bad credit) to several different "b" lenders! Seems to me that's the way it oughta work.......but then I'm just an Appraiser

Then instead of pressure from the sleazy LO, you'll have it from the borrower. But what else is new , eh?

 

[ockyappraiser]

I have been reading all the posts on collect at the door. I have been an appraiser for 3 years, but prior to that owned two mortgage companies and several radio stations. One thing I learned is this. . .the bottom line in business is cash flow!

Give me check at the door on every deal! Too many banks/brokers wait 30-60 days to pay. Many of them have closed the loans and had all proceeds cut back to the broker/bank, then cut the appraiser a check for several appraisals once a month. Who do you suppose is getting use of your money?

I have started asking for either: check, cash, or VISA/MC at the door on every appraisal. If that's not acceptable, the broker/bank has to fax me a payment guarantee.

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Jo Ann

Me? Read the Foundation website? Nope. Send out email by the thousands??? Nah. Don't have time. I think all those foundation and USPAP guys get their smarts from the posts on the forum............It only took them over a decade to get with the program on what is a federally-related transaction. :lol: :lol:

As far as your scenario, you are correct if the lender calls you and tells you to collect COD, they are the client and the lender.


Steve, the point is not moot if the lender tells the borrower to order the appraisal. The borrower is then the client. I tried it on an internet mortgage deal this year and no one objected, or maybe they weren't smart enough to notice it. Being a deal with an internet mortgage company, I knew it would be around to several lenders before closing as the borrower compared costs and rates at each lender. Each time the borrower was listed as the client because he ordered and paid for the report. Everytime he switched lenders, he called and directed where the report was to be emailed with the new lender's name on it and of course, he was listed as the client. It closed, so as I said, it must be OK or they don't read.

My next question is: what information is confidential in a residential appraisal report? My best guess: None.

Ben

 

[Judy Whitehead (Florida)]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....Most of these fly-by-night types know that if the homeowner lets us come and pays us.....then they at least stand a chance of closing the deal. We are the "key" for them..in other words, if the borrower pays for the appraisal then they have money and time invested.

Most of the borrowers are less experienced than the lenders. Most of these "mortgage brokers"...aren't. They just work as a telemarketer under someones mortgage brokers license. The broker is pulling for us to get the appointment and our payment, as there is at least a chance then that "they" might make money!

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

Ben...that is the most off the wall thing you have come up to date! I know everyone has a right to travel to the beat of a different drummer, but you my friend, are dancing to a pan flute!

Fannie Mae says they will not buy the loan IF the borrower ordered the appraisal. Naming the borrower as the client is, at best, risky business! Why tempt fate and cause someone's loan to be rejected because you want to do something different?