Does room have to be on main HVAC to be GLA?

[Tim The Enchanter]

Heat source is not enough to exclude it from GLA. If it fits in with the floor plan, has normal access, and all, the separate heater doesn't matter.

Must usually have permits for GLA, though. Sounds like maybe it's an addition? Did they call it an attic?

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

What is the wall and ceiling height? If this is what we called a FROG (finished room over garage) ...then is it same quality?? That is the issue apparently. And it appears perhaps that it once was not finished the same as the rest of the house. So I do not necessarily agree with the above folks saying it is clearly GLA.

GLA should not only be of the same finish but there is the implication that the ceiling height is typical as well.
fannie mae said

Evaluating Above-Grade Room Count

The most common comparison for one-unit properties is the above-grade gross living area. Appraisers must be consistent when calculating and reporting finished above-grade room count and square footage for the gross living area above-grade. A level is considered below-grade if any portion of it is below-grade—regardless of the quality of its finish or the window area of any room. A walk-out basement with finished rooms would not be included in the above-grade room count.

The following must be observed when calculating and reporting above-grade room count and square footage for the gross living area:
• Only finished above-grade areas can be used in calculating and reporting of above-grade room count and square footage for the gross living area.
• Garages and basements, including those that are partially above-grade, must not be included in the above-grade room count.​

Below-Grade Areas
​

Rooms that are not included in the above-grade room count may add substantially to the value of a property—particularly when the quality of the finish is high.
The appraiser must report the basement or other partially below-grade areas separately and make appropriate adjustments for them on the “basement and finished areas below-grade” line in the “sales comparison analysis” grid.

Appropriate Above-Grade and Below-Grade Comparisons

To ensure consistency in the sales comparison analysis, appraisers must compare above-grade areas to above-grade areas and below-grade areas to below-grade areas.

Appraisers may deviate from this approach if the style of the subject property or any of the comparables does not lend itself to such comparisons. However, in such instances, the appraiser must explain the reason for the deviation and clearly describe the comparisons that were made.
​

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If the heat air system is "different" and separate from the remaining heat and air, I would conclude that it is "below grade" personally. If the wall height is low and the ceiling is less than full 8' I would consider it "below grade". That does not mean it wasn't worth something, perhaps as much as the remainder of the house but it is not necessarily equal either.

FHA 's spin is​

Gross Living Area is the total area of finished, above-grade residential space. It is calculated by
measuring the outside perimeter of the structure and includes only finished, habitable, above-grade
living space. Finished basements and unfinished attic areas are not included in total gross living
area. The appraiser must match the measurement techniques used for the subject to the
comparable sales. It is important to apply this measurement technique and report the building
dimensions consistently because failure to do so can impair the quality of the appraisal report.

 

[jonand15]

Thanks for all the info, guys. A little more background on the space. The space has been finished as long as I've lived in the house. We just added new carpet, paint, removed the interior spiral staircase (from office) that was previously the sole access to the room, and extended the hallway upstairs to meet the space. The space is mostly above the garage, but expands above an interior hallway and office as well.

There are some sloped walls, but I've done the calculation in Sketchup and about 60% of the area is above 7' in height. There is also a nice skylight and a large dormer that have been done well and make the room very usable. IMHO, it's as comfortable as the rest of the house and fits in well.

We did dispute the appraisal, and I talked to the township assessor (though not the building department) who said that the space should certainly be considered as main home square footage. The assessor's office has a couple hundred more sq ft for our home than this appraisal. My mortgage broker forwarded the assessor's opinion and a previous appraisal from 1.5 years ago, which included the space as GLA and here's the relevant part of the appraiser's response:

"...The previous appraiser did not identify this bonus room to be on a separate heat source, making this only a finished bonus room and not part of the total gross living area, as identiied in FNMA guidelines..."

He didn't make any mention of any other criteria except the fact that it's on separate heat. He included it as a bonus room under amenities. Unfortunately, I'm near the cusp of being able to ditch PMI but if I have to use this number I'll be paying PMI for two more years than I think I ought to

 

[Alpine]

"...The previous appraiser did not identify this bonus room to be on a separate heat source, making this only a finished bonus room and not part of the total gross living area, as identiied in FNMA guidelines..."

If I were you, I'd demand the appraiser produce chapter and verse from their FNMA source. As others have indicated, there are wall and ceiling heights/ratios associated with above-garage or "finished attic" rooms which might warrant their exclusion from primary GLA, but your appraiser is not citing that as the cause of exclusion, only the heat source. I have a hard time believing that the appraiser can provide proof of their assertion that a separate heating source requires exclusion.

 

[Meandering]

The room in question is a 300 square foot room above the garage that's accessible from the main upstairs hallway through a full-sized door. It has a permanent natural gas wall furnace with a dedicated thermostat.

The gas wall furnace concerns me. What is the exhaust feature? Typically, this type of heating system would not be allowed in a bedroom, and the unit should have a safety warning sticker on it notifying the user that it should not be in a bedroom.

If the unit is not vented to the outside of the wall, I would hesitate to call the space GLA, but rather limited utility space, due to the possibility of inhaling the carbon monoxide from the fire. Some cheap models are not vented to the outside wall, some expensive models are.

If it were a stand alone electric baseboard system, I would not have an issue calling it GLA. But, an unventilated, wall hung gas furnace is a different animal.


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[Mr Rex]

Marion, ventless gas heaters are legal in many states.

In any case, the appraiser should give value to the space as would the market. Just because the appraiser considers it not to be GLA doesn't mean it has no value. FWIW, most 2 story houses have 2 separate HVAC systems. Wonder if the appraiser excludes all of the 2nd story area in those homes as well.

 

[Meandering]

I did not say it does not have value,

garages have value and they are not GLA.

But I would check with the code, and the manufacturer's instructions, if the gas heater is vent less. They sell them here too. Gas, propane or kerosene. But they are not safe for use a bedroom because of fumes, and they are not safe for very small rooms, for the same reason.

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[J Grant]

He included it as a bonus room under amenities. Unfortunately, I'm near the cusp of being able to ditch PMI but if I have to use this number I'll be paying PMI for two more years than I think I ought to

Did the room show value in market as a bonus room under amenities? (an adjustment). The appraiser did include it in report, just not as much value perhaps as you feel it should have (though often a sep value as amenity is equiv to the additional GLA value)

Nobody here can say it should or should not have been included as we don't know the potential issues with heat source and permits etc, plus you state only 60% of ceiling height is over 7feet high.

Sometimes the decision between what is a bonus room and what is GLA is determined not just by ANSI but by market standards , how a typical buyer sees it, not how an owner sees it ( to you it's as comfortable/livable as rest of house, but would the other buyers out there see it that way?)

 

[Mountain Man]

Growing up our bedroom was never safe because of my brothers fumes. I never had problems with LP non-vented heaters; if maintained they work well and shut down if not. Still doesn't mean a FROG can't be counted in GLA. The OPs appraiser is an idiot.

 

[jonand15]

Thanks guys. All good stuff--I'm really impressed with the quality and thought that you folks put into your responses.

It is vented to the outside through the back of the unit (which sits outside) and the documentation from the manufacturer doesn't say anything about not using it in living area. It may be a lost cause, but I think I have enough ammo to try and see if the mortgage broker can request a new appraisal.