Tim The Enchanter
Elite Member
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- Jan 24, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- California
Screw it shut. Done deal. Unless it's the only second exit. 
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door to nowhere
- Thread starter PhiloFarnsworth
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Mike Kennedy
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- New York
That high above grade - it is likely that a deadbolt does not meet occupancy requirements for health and safety reasons - most municipalities require a more substantial preventative measure to prevent injury while enabling rear egress in the event of fire i.e. declining stairs with railing or sealing the doorway; most owners typically opt to install the exterior stairs - which,
***IN MUNICIPALITIES WHICH HAVE BUILDING ORDINANCES, BUILDING PERMITS, AND CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY/COMPLETION/COMPLIANCE,*** typically require a BP and CO and specific ingress and egress requirements.
It is entirely appropriate to ascertain local building ordinance requirements for such improvements/ potential hazards without identifying a subject's address, tax id, owners' name(s).
Without knowing the specific governing Municipality - a quick Google indicated C. of O'.s are routinely required in the City of Lancaster, PA (for example)
Whether that City (or other Muni. in your area) would require remediation of a potential health & safety hazard - takes a phone call/ email to a, or the, Building Inspector. Personal review of a specific subject's property file, without divulging ANY site observation info - in cases of potential health & safety issues should be done (unless online) during the normal course of business (while on the road b4 or after site observation).
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Geneva]City of Lancaster, PA
""In general, the Bureau of Code Compliance and Inspections works to ensure public safety, health and welfare insofar as they are affected by building construction, through accessibility, adequate exit facilities, fire safety, light and ventilation requirements and sanitary equipment and facilities.
[/FONT]Buildings and structures are not to be used or occupied until a Certificate of Occupancy has been issued by the code official. Certificates of Occupancy[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Geneva]
Questions regarding plan submittals, reviews, permits, permit fees or code requirements should be directed to the appropriate staff member:"
[/FONT]
http://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/lancastercity/cwp/view.asp?a=1189&q=615849
Last edited:
Meandering
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Professional Status
- Real Estate Agent or Broker
- State
- Pennsylvania
Screw it shut. Done deal. Unless it's the only second exit.
That's what I said they do here. Screw it shut while the appraiser is there, and if they take the screw out after the appraiser leaves, that's on them. Just make sure you get a picture of the door with the screw tightened all the way down.
incognito
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Florida
Mike, I know I apparently will not change your mind, as you tend to like to mire yourself in quotes, italics, bolds, colored highlights, etc., but for the rest:
. Green highlight just for you, Mike. FHA could care less what your municipality thinks or wants...
Mike Kennedy
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- New York
FHA Valuation Protocol 4150.2
"Statement of Assumptions and Limiting Conditions: The appraiser’s certification in this report is subject to the following assumptions and limiting conditions:
Field Protocol
1. Matters of a Legal Nature
The appraiser will not be responsible for matters of a legal nature that affect either the property being appraised or the title to it, except for information that he or she became aware of during the research involved in performing this appraisal. The appraiser assumes that the title is good and marketable and will not render any opinions about the title.
10. Verification
I verified, from a disinterested source, all information in this report that was provided by parties who have a financial interest in the sale or financing of the subject property.
11. Competency
I have knowledge and experience in appraising this type of property in this market area.
12. Resources
I am aware of, and have access to, the necessary and appropriate public and private data sources, such as multiple listing services, tax assessment records, public land records and other such data sources for the area in which the property is located.
15. Knowingly Withholding Information
I have not knowingly withheld any significant information from this appraisal report and, to the best of my knowledge, all statements and information in this appraisal report are true and correct.
25. Civil Liabilities & Criminal Penalties
Any intentional or negligent misrepresentation(s) contained in this appraisal report may result in civil liability and/or criminal penalties including, but not limited to, fine or imprisonment or both under the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, et seq., or similar state laws."
"Zoning Compliance
• Determine whether the current use is in compliance with the zoning ordinances. Mark whether it is Legal, Legal Non-Conforming (Grandfathered Use), No Zoning, or Illegal Use.
• If the existing property does not comply with all of the current zoning regulations (use, lot size, improvement size, off street parking, etc.) but is accepted by the local zoning authority, enter “Legal Non-Conforming” and provide a brief explanation.
• If the use is not legal, the property is not eligible for FHA mortgage insurance."
"Condition of the property (including needed repairs, deterioration, renovations, remodeling, etc.)
• Describe any physical deterioration and/or functional or external depreciation noted in or on the property.
• Provide a conclusion as to the overall condition of the improvements that is supported by the previous descriptive sections.
• Describe needed repairs for property to meet FHA’s MPR or MPS."
"needed repairs" requirement to cure the readily apparent health & safety deficiency in the OP - DO vary from Municipality to Municipality. It behooves the Appraiser to ascertain what the specific Municipal requirements are.
"Physical deficiencies or adverse conditions
• Enter an “X “ in the applicable box indicating whether or not there are any physical deficiencies or adverse conditions that affect the livability, soundness, or structural integrity of the property. If the response is “No”, no explanation is required or needed."
"However, if the response is “Yes”, an explanation is required and, if necessary, condition the appraisal on the “repair or alteration of the condition” or a “required inspection” by appropriately qualified individuals or entities, which may include professional engineers, tradespersons, HUD Fee Inspectors."
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
This poster is not the author of the requirements above. Should participants in this discussion have a question or problem with the FHA'S stated requirements, suggest they communicate them to the FHA.
"Statement of Assumptions and Limiting Conditions: The appraiser’s certification in this report is subject to the following assumptions and limiting conditions:
Field Protocol
1. Matters of a Legal Nature
The appraiser will not be responsible for matters of a legal nature that affect either the property being appraised or the title to it, except for information that he or she became aware of during the research involved in performing this appraisal. The appraiser assumes that the title is good and marketable and will not render any opinions about the title.
10. Verification
I verified, from a disinterested source, all information in this report that was provided by parties who have a financial interest in the sale or financing of the subject property.
11. Competency
I have knowledge and experience in appraising this type of property in this market area.
12. Resources
I am aware of, and have access to, the necessary and appropriate public and private data sources, such as multiple listing services, tax assessment records, public land records and other such data sources for the area in which the property is located.
15. Knowingly Withholding Information
I have not knowingly withheld any significant information from this appraisal report and, to the best of my knowledge, all statements and information in this appraisal report are true and correct.
25. Civil Liabilities & Criminal Penalties
Any intentional or negligent misrepresentation(s) contained in this appraisal report may result in civil liability and/or criminal penalties including, but not limited to, fine or imprisonment or both under the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, et seq., or similar state laws."
"Zoning Compliance
• Determine whether the current use is in compliance with the zoning ordinances. Mark whether it is Legal, Legal Non-Conforming (Grandfathered Use), No Zoning, or Illegal Use.
• If the existing property does not comply with all of the current zoning regulations (use, lot size, improvement size, off street parking, etc.) but is accepted by the local zoning authority, enter “Legal Non-Conforming” and provide a brief explanation.
• If the use is not legal, the property is not eligible for FHA mortgage insurance."
"Condition of the property (including needed repairs, deterioration, renovations, remodeling, etc.)
• Describe any physical deterioration and/or functional or external depreciation noted in or on the property.
• Provide a conclusion as to the overall condition of the improvements that is supported by the previous descriptive sections.
• Describe needed repairs for property to meet FHA’s MPR or MPS."
"needed repairs" requirement to cure the readily apparent health & safety deficiency in the OP - DO vary from Municipality to Municipality. It behooves the Appraiser to ascertain what the specific Municipal requirements are.
"Physical deficiencies or adverse conditions
• Enter an “X “ in the applicable box indicating whether or not there are any physical deficiencies or adverse conditions that affect the livability, soundness, or structural integrity of the property. If the response is “No”, no explanation is required or needed."
"However, if the response is “Yes”, an explanation is required and, if necessary, condition the appraisal on the “repair or alteration of the condition” or a “required inspection” by appropriately qualified individuals or entities, which may include professional engineers, tradespersons, HUD Fee Inspectors."
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
This poster is not the author of the requirements above. Should participants in this discussion have a question or problem with the FHA'S stated requirements, suggest they communicate them to the FHA.
Last edited:
Mr Rex
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2004
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- North Carolina
You gotta get back out in the fee world, it does wonders for your ego.
Last edited:
Mile High Trout
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
Thanks for the informational posts, Mike.
You should call it, subject to repair to meet minimum safety standards.
In this case, the deviance from safety is the way this deal is set up.
That setup also is almost certainly in violation of city code, for safety and appeal issues.
Therefore, the correction to meet FHA standards is to finish the job appropriately or wall the whole thing over or something.
Mandatory repair condition:
1. Add proper staircase, platform, or remove door, or repurpose as window or something more safe for residents.
Condition: The breakfast door to nowhere is a fall hazard, and although this door is deadbolt locked, it's natural function as a door to nowhere is inherently dangerous to the residents and guests. The presence of a mere lock is still unacceptable, since this design is inherently dangerous and presents as an uncompleted project that does present a potential danger.
Cure: Repurpose the door to a window, add stairwell, remove door and wall over, add sturdy standing platform.
Estimated costs to cure: Various solutions would carry varying costs, but a basic repurposing of the framing here to present as a window, would eliminate the fall hazard and be a cost effective solution. Other repairs may be more costly, and this repair is only a minimal correction estimate.
Labor, parts, window - $1,500
Estimated costs to cure for other solutions to maintain the door, would probably run $2,5k and up.
Observe, report, and don't get screwed in the legal process when someone needs somebody to sue.
A screw in to the door is not an acceptable cure. It's a bandaid, not a correction of a dangerous item.
You should call it, subject to repair to meet minimum safety standards.
In this case, the deviance from safety is the way this deal is set up.
That setup also is almost certainly in violation of city code, for safety and appeal issues.
Therefore, the correction to meet FHA standards is to finish the job appropriately or wall the whole thing over or something.
Mandatory repair condition:
1. Add proper staircase, platform, or remove door, or repurpose as window or something more safe for residents.
Condition: The breakfast door to nowhere is a fall hazard, and although this door is deadbolt locked, it's natural function as a door to nowhere is inherently dangerous to the residents and guests. The presence of a mere lock is still unacceptable, since this design is inherently dangerous and presents as an uncompleted project that does present a potential danger.
Cure: Repurpose the door to a window, add stairwell, remove door and wall over, add sturdy standing platform.
Estimated costs to cure: Various solutions would carry varying costs, but a basic repurposing of the framing here to present as a window, would eliminate the fall hazard and be a cost effective solution. Other repairs may be more costly, and this repair is only a minimal correction estimate.
Labor, parts, window - $1,500
Estimated costs to cure for other solutions to maintain the door, would probably run $2,5k and up.
Observe, report, and don't get screwed in the legal process when someone needs somebody to sue.
A screw in to the door is not an acceptable cure. It's a bandaid, not a correction of a dangerous item.
Mile High Trout
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
On site security, and metal detector wands, and scanner technology. Proximital sensors, and safety net in the event of falling, some one will fall eventually.
Parts - $8,000. Labor home security - factored 1 year $30 hr x 365x24 = $262,800.
Totals: $270,800
Rex, you've just discovered the most sensible while appropriately insensible, yet provable, home expense writeoff in history.
More people are going to start building like this, once this story gets around.
And let's spice it up a little. Make it the breakfast door to nowhere, or the buenos noches door to nowhere, or buddas door to heaven over the living room. We've got to sell the product, first and foremost.
Parts - $8,000. Labor home security - factored 1 year $30 hr x 365x24 = $262,800.
Totals: $270,800
Rex, you've just discovered the most sensible while appropriately insensible, yet provable, home expense writeoff in history.
More people are going to start building like this, once this story gets around.
And let's spice it up a little. Make it the breakfast door to nowhere, or the buenos noches door to nowhere, or buddas door to heaven over the living room. We've got to sell the product, first and foremost.
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