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Double dipping?

Is this double dipping?

  • Yes double dipping

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • No that’s correct

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Need more info

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • Total voters
    3
Are there condition (C) adjustments for your home being a remodel? A Q rating can be for anything really if he specifically mentions the Q is for the basement that's a new one. Is your home all vinyl and do some/any comps have brick or stone which may have warranted a Q rating? Go on Zillow and look at interior pics of the comps that were used and compare how they stack up to yours. If there is no condition rating for your remodel you can request a reconsideration of value and mention similarly remodeled homes for comps.
Yes C2 for remodel. I've pulled data from the state database on sold comps with pics, clear cut that mine ranks up there with the Q3's at least if not some Q2's. Shared renovation data with appraiser (updated electrical panel, Class 4 shingles, insulated siding, energy effecient windows, etc. I thought about the brick/stone/lumber angle, those seem to be all over the place for Q ratings, so can't really say.

Have done ROV. Came back at 7k higher. 193k to 199k .

But the big one is the Q codes. Q2- 44k, Q3 22k. And basement being 10.5k. So between getting knocked on just the basement. It's also the Q codes specifically stated due to not having a basement. So getting dinged 50-55k in some cases. When it should based on how I'm interpretting the appraisal only be a knock of 10.5k.

And when reading the Q codes where they specifically state what Q code is for. Honestly all of the comps and my property should be Q4 across the board with 1 or 2 as a Q3 maybe. None of them are custom built or even close to it. This is an old blue collar town with 1950's ranch homes everywhere. Boring/Basic.
 
Gotcha, I can't make heads or tails of those adjustments did you offer over list price, if so how much
 
Sounds as if this has been going on for awhile. I'm assuming an ROV
(reconsideration of value) has been issued to the appraiser along with competitive sales to the subject property, yes? Typically, you get one shot at this. What did the appraiser state replying to the alternate sales you provided to them?

You can request that the lender assign another appraiser or you may have to switch lenders all together.

All new everything is kind of vague. Every comparable sale utilize by the appraiser should be somewhat similar to yours. There may be no recent, upgraded/remodeled sales available. This may be why the appraiser utilized sales with basements as they were remodeled. The appraiser should have went further back in time or expanded the parameters of distance to find upgraded sales on slab for the report.

This makes no sense at all. The Quality rating is for the property in its entirety.

Unfortunately, this is what you get with the AMC system. They don't look for the most competent, geographically located appraiser. They look for the cheapest appraiser to maximize profits.

One more item.....


How do you and the lender know this but not the appraiser?
Yes sir. RoV was done. Sent in 4 comps. 3 with basements 1 slab. Appraiser did not use the slab as a comp. Due to being across the main road (.2 miles). (Figured I'd pull this because some of the comps from the first appraisal he included from also across the road). He's pretty hard on about the slabs being Q4 no matter what. Which I didn't get the hint from until the second appraisal coming back.

He went back in time to a year and spread out a few different blocks on the first report. The second report he used a comp, sold in the worst time of the year here (dead winter) that was a 2 bedroom vs this being a 3 bedroom. In a town of families and section 8, 3 bedrooms come at a premium (weird he'd prefer to comp 2 bedrooms vs 3 bedrooms over slab vs basement).

"This makes no sense at all. The Quality rating is for the property in its entirety."
That's what I thought too. Which is main reason I'm here, to see maybe I'm dumber than I thought and ya'll can talk some sense into me showing me I'm wrong and can go to bed on this.

"Unfortunately, this is what you get with the AMC system. They don't look for the most competent, geographically located appraiser. They look for the cheapest appraiser to maximize profits."
I'm learning about this now, seems like it's quite the issue sometimes. Never knew about AMC's, since this is fortunately/unfortunately the first time having, what I think is a jacked appraisal come back.

"How do you and the lender know this but not the appraiser?"
A mix bag of investing/flipping/rentals for 7 years. I'm within 1-5% on my valuations and I'm conservative. Never 15-20% in the wrong direction. Especially in a market that's only been trending up 5-10% the last 3 years and still growing. (Yes, I'll probably get crap for saying this on appraisal forums for quantitative work, but qualitative takes it's own experience and shouldn't be discounted).

I think the main thing I'm learning is what it seems is the improper use of the Q code. Which would bring it back into my range I first thought this house would have been valued at.
 
Region so I have no opinion. Here a basement is called an underground swimming pool.
And I would never buy a house with a basement personally, not even for a rental. But that's just me.
 
I think the main thing I'm learning is what it seems is the improper use of the Q code.
So a Q1 would be the White House, look past the president and admire the walls, the details, the custom over the top amenities.

Q2 is an ultra custom house like on Million Dollar Listing, with an infinity pool, $300k stove and built in espresso maker from France.

Q3 are the homes that you wish you lived in and the neighborhood you will never enjoy full sized candy bars on Halloween. Look at their Christmas lights they paid someone to put up and go home to your plastic reindeer in the front yard.

Q4 are homes that all of us have. Standard homes with standard amenities. Granite is the new norm. Luxury vinyl is still plastic. Toilets that you have to push the knob down to make things disappear.

Q5 and Q6 are dumps.
 
So a Q1 would be the White House, look past the president and admire the walls, the details, the custom over the top amenities.

Q2 is an ultra custom house like on Million Dollar Listing, with an infinity pool, $300k stove and built in espresso maker from France.

Q3 are the homes that you wish you lived in and the neighborhood you will never enjoy full sized candy bars on Halloween. Look at their Christmas lights they paid someone to put up and go home to your plastic reindeer in the front yard.

Q4 are homes that all of us have. Standard homes with standard amenities. Granite is the new norm. Luxury vinyl is still plastic. Toilets that you have to push the knob down to make things disappear.

Q5 and Q6 are dumps.
Love it. Friends in San Diego right now would argue million dollar listing starts at Q4 and can only trend to Q5 and 6.
 
Q is for quality. Think Ford vs Mercedes. Q is simply the quality of the components in total. When I said 'Million Dollar Listing', I was referring to the show, where they list 50-100M dollar homes. A one million dollar property is entry level in Cali, I understand that. Q ratings have NOTHING to do with basements or lack of basements.

C is for condition. C1 is brand new. C3 and C4 are most homes in America. C2 are typically flips and C1 are brand new construction. C ratings have NOTHING to do with basements or lack of basements.
UAD Condition Rating Definitions (C1-C6)
  • C1: The improvements are newly constructed, never occupied, and feature no physical depreciation.
  • C2: The improvements feature no deferred maintenance, little or no physical depreciation, and require no repairs. Essentially, a recently renovated or "like-new" home.
  • C3: The improvements are well-maintained and show normal wear and tear. All major components are functional, but some components may need updating or replacement.
  • C4: The property is well-maintained and fully functional, but shows minor deferred maintenance and needs some repairs (cosmetic or minor), with components near the end of their useful life.
  • C5: The improvements have obvious deferred maintenance and require significant repairs, with some components in need of replacement.
  • C6: The improvements have substantial damage or deferred maintenance, resulting in severe deficiencies affecting safety, soundness, or structural integrity.
Once you comprehend the ratings, interpreting the appraisal should be easier.
 
Seems to me it has little to do with the adequacy of the comparables as opposed to the fact that they made a Q adjustment for the basements and also made a basement adjustment. Thus the double dipping.
Could be. However, the OP also posted about providing other sales. Sales without basements. Without actually doing a review of the appraisal, neither of us actually knows. Could be both problems are there.
 
I 100% agree with this. I'm wondering if this may be a region/city specific thing, as far as this one goes. All like properties are within 2-4 years of each other 1950's builds.

When I read Q1-Q5 I'm on your side that all of these shouldve been Q4 maybeeee Q3 on one or two. But they're all midwest 1950's small town types comps.

So I'm just trying to make sense of where this guys head is at.
Maybe he's just taking a year group/like kind properties and starting them all at Q2 for a baseline and going from there? But it doesn't make sense to flat out Q4 something just because it's missing a basement and explicitly stating as such. Especially since there is a box for that specifically.
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