Electrical Question

[Pat Butler]

FHA has really downgraded its standards. I remember the argument as to whether or not 60amp service was adequate 20 years ago! It was a gray area then, but I can't imagine what type of house, other than a really small one, would be adequately provide by with 60amp services. Things like microwave ovens and elaborate home entertainment systems have cropped up in recent years and really require much more insofar as electrical capacity.

And gosh, knob and tube is from the early 1900's! Get that stuff out there. Why even have any standards at all if they are going to place them so low. It's a darn government agency; let the private funders take on these old houses.

 

[sbb04]

Yeah the really relaxed the standards I guess to pacify the lenders. Fuses are OK. 60 amp minimum. If not 60 then needs to be upgraded to 100. At least that's the way it was.

 

[Mr Rex]

Yeah the really relaxed the standards I guess to pacify the lenders. Fuses are OK. 60 amp minimum. If not 60 then needs to be upgraded to 100. At least that's the way it was.

Care to share the link to this requirement?

 

[Greg Bell]

In the old days a 100 AMP servcie was required , not today so let it spark..

 

[Mr Rex]

Greg, do you mind sharing your source? I can't find it, but I could be wrong.

 

[Mike Boyd]

The knob and tubing statement is a change. FHA used require it be changed.



Only when there was not a separate ground wire or if it was frayed or spliced or otherwise inadequate. The concept of Knob and tube wiring as actually safer than wiring in conduit or Romex as it does not heat up as easily which causes fires. However, it is most likely undersized for the amount of electrical fixtures and appliances we use today. I think the requirment back in "the day" was that if the house did not have a 100 amp service and main it had to be changed. Now, the change requirement is limited to whether or not it is a health or safety hazard.

 

[Mr Rex]

[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Electrical and Heating[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]http://www.HUD.gov/images/common/hgv-fmt-space.gifhttp://www.HUD.gov/images/common/hgv-fmt-btmleft.gifhttp://www.HUD.gov/images/common/hgv-fmt-space.gifhttp://www.HUD.gov/images/common/hgv-fmt-btmright.gif [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chapter 1[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Appraisal & Property Requirements[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Page 1-26[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A: Electrical Service: [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]May be either circuit breakers or fuses.[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Appraisers should examine the electrical box to ensure that there are no frayed or exposed wires. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Existing 60-amp service is acceptable if it appears that this is adequate amperage for the appliances present in the property, or those considered "standard" if the present appliances appear to be less than found in the "standard" home. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Knob and tube wiring is acceptable if found to be in good condition and a minimum of 60-amps. [/FONT]​

 

[Lobo Fan]

There are many older (Pre WWII) homes with only 30 amp, 120v services. In today's world, that is not really edequate. Especially with all the electronic devices and the harmonics they pump back into the system. Harmonics can be a real problem, especially in commercial facilities. The old knob and tubs actually lowers the harmonic problem because the hot and neutral are further apart than with romex. Of course, there is seldom a ground which is another issue. If undisturbed, knob and tube is a very solid wiring method, as is evidenced by still working after all these years.

Aluminum romex is a much bigger problem. Almost every home built in the late 1970s used aluminum romex.

 

[Mike Boyd]

There are many older (Pre WWII) homes with only 30 amp, 120v services. In today's world, that is not really edequate. Especially with all the electronic devices and the harmonics they pump back into the system. Harmonics can be a real problem, especially in commercial facilities. The old knob and tubs actually lowers the harmonic problem because the hot and neutral are further apart than with romex. Of course, there is seldom a ground which is another issue. If undisturbed, knob and tube is a very solid wiring method, as is evidenced by still working after all these years.

Aluminum romex is a much bigger problem. Almost every home built in the late 1970s used aluminum romex.

Most of today's appliances, computers, radios, etc., require a ground wire separate from the neutral. Otherwise, they are unsafe.

 

[sbb04]

Would if I could. I said that was the standard in the 'old days' before they got rid of the panel. In fact the regional offices had leeway on various requirements.

Care to share the link to this requirement?