FANNIE bonds with AMCs, over your dead low paid body.

[Zoe]

Joan was already wanting her constituents to try and get appraisal licensing abolished even though Joan is a licensed appraiser.

Doesn't matter. You separate all the fees on truth in lending disclosures to borrowers and the whole market structure changes to more of a free market and support public trust and credibility.

Anti trust law comes into play when the market structure allows for a market participant to have market power on price.

If you separate fees on truth in lending disclosures.......... it not only helps hinder market power on price........but it also creates who pays for what on the truth in lending disclosures to borrowers. and helps public trust.

It still boils down to commingling of fees and public trust and market structure. In essence, separation of fees would separate the market. Instead of 1 or 2 markets, you would have 2 or 3 markets acting more independently.

I won't swear it would not force lenders to pay for what an AMC does. I won't swear what GSE might have to pay for with separation of fees on truth in lending disclosures.

Anti trust legislation was created to keep somebody like Bellsouth from having market power on price for telephones. Anti trust tries to prevent consumer from suffering from monopolistic or oligopoly power on price.

Monopoly vs. Oligopoly: Understanding Key Market Structures

Learn the difference between a monopoly and an oligopoly, both being economic market structures where there is imperfect competition in the market.

www.investopedia.com

It is market structure related on anti trust law.

 

[Zoe]

It doesn't matter whether you are looking at it from buyer standpoint or seller standpoint.

Think about this:

Read this from antitrust law perspective:

https://www.timesmojo.com/what-is-the-difference-between-monopsony-and-oligopsony/

Still market structure related.

Monopoly vs monopsony are different but same on market structure. Same way with Oligopoly vs Oligopsony.

Monopoly vs monopsony still have market power on price due to market structure. Same with oligopoly vs oligopsony.

 

[alebrewer]

Where did this idea come from that the appraiser's true value is in analyzing data? The appraiser finds tremendous value in inspecting themselves, even if it takes up time-

Quick question: what's the first task that typically gets doled out to the newbies by the folks who 'say' they inspected but really don't? Why do you think that is? I can teach someone to perform a competent appraisal inspection (especially given the technology available today) in a couple of months. I can teach someone to be a data analyst in about a year. You tell me which piece requires a greater level of expertise? Just be honest - it's about the money folks will lose doing hybrids. It's never been about the integrity of the reports - it's about the fee difference for 'full' vs 'hybrid'.

I've always been amused by those who are willing to assume property condition for a 2055, but not for a hybrid. Is it because 2055's typically pay pretty well?

 

[J Grant]

Quick question: what's the first task that typically gets doled out to the newbies by the folks who 'say' they inspected but really don't? Why do you think that is? I can teach someone to perform a competent appraisal inspection (especially given the technology available today) in a couple of months. I can teach someone to be a data analyst in about a year. You tell me which piece requires a greater level of expertise? Just be honest - it's about the money folks will lose doing hybrids. It's never been about the integrity of the reports - it's about the fee difference for 'full' vs 'hybrid'.

I've always been amused by those who are willing to assume property condition for a 2055, but not for a hybrid. Is it because 2055's typically pay pretty well?

Your arguments make no sense. It can take a week to teach someone to analyze data or do an inspection, having either one as a standalone task. It is the INTEGRATION of the two which takes time to teach and time to learn and can only be earned by the time in the field correlated with analyzing the sales, listing, trends, and other data one observes in the subject, comps, and neighborhood.

The market immersion in the field, not just analyzing disembodied numbers, is what makes an appraiser a market expert.

Anybody can analyze data as numbers, just as anybody can rote measure and photo a house ( a PDR collector ). It's obvious that the stakeholders are cutting up the integrated appraisal into rote work portions to justify not having appraisers in the process - they have eliminated the appraisal or any valuation from the process in a WAIVER, but no worries, the lender estimates the value needed to make the deal work ! ( or the sc price is the value ) And these are the people who are suddenly worried about a rogue supervisor checking did inspect 20 years ago?

 

[Zoe]

Quick question: what's the first task that typically gets doled out to the newbies by the folks who 'say' they inspected but really don't? Why do you think that is? I can teach someone to perform a competent appraisal inspection (especially given the technology available today) in a couple of months. I can teach someone to be a data analyst in about a year. You tell me which piece requires a greater level of expertise? Just be honest - it's about the money folks will lose doing hybrids. It's never been about the integrity of the reports - it's about the fee difference for 'full' vs 'hybrid'.

I've always been amused by those who are willing to assume property condition for a 2055, but not for a hybrid. Is it because 2055's typically pay pretty well?

I can dig in deeper. Tell me how well you know the Memphis market which is very heterogeneous. Shelby County has like 7 or 8 different jurisdictions. Memphis is more heterogeneous than all the jurisdictions including the rural areas. Shelby County is largest geographical County in Tennessee.

Now, if I don't know the market and how heterogeneous it is, how I am I supposed to do a 2055 when I am in tim buk too and have never been to Shelby County, let alone Tennessee. Tennessee has some very heterogeneous areas period. Many rural areas.

 

[Zoe]

Quick question: what's the first task that typically gets doled out to the newbies by the folks who 'say' they inspected but really don't? Why do you think that is? I can teach someone to perform a competent appraisal inspection (especially given the technology available today) in a couple of months. I can teach someone to be a data analyst in about a year. You tell me which piece requires a greater level of expertise? Just be honest - it's about the money folks will lose doing hybrids. It's never been about the integrity of the reports - it's about the fee difference for 'full' vs 'hybrid'.

I've always been amused by those who are willing to assume property condition for a 2055, but not for a hybrid. Is it because 2055's typically pay pretty well?

I am done arguing with you. Do your believe fees should be separated on truth in lending disclosures? Do you believe in commingling of fees on truth in lending disclosures?

If you believe in commingling of fees on truth in lending disclosures, tell me why? Mention public trust in your reasons.

 

[Zoe]

Hell, I don't even think @DWiley agrees with commingling of fees.

My girlfriend Joan Trice didn't agree with commingling of fees.

 

[Zoe]

I have a bunch of respect of Appraisal Institute but I lost some when they fired Dr. Chance and she was standing up for single family residential appraisers.

 

[alebrewer]

I am done arguing with you. Do your believe fees should be separated on truth in lending disclosures? Do you believe in commingling of fees on truth in lending disclosures?

If you believe in commingling of fees on truth in lending disclosures, tell me why? Mention public trust in your reasons.

sorry Zoe. I didn't realize we were arguing. I really have no strong opinion on whether TILA fees should be broken out, as I don't think borrowers give one **** about how much the appraiser makes. And let me go ahead and mention public trust as well. It's definitely worth listing.

 

[J Grant]

sorry Zoe. I didn't realize we were arguing. I really have no strong opinion on whether TILA fees should be broken out, as I don't think borrowers give one **** about how much the appraiser makes. And let me go ahead and mention public trust as well. It's definitely worth listing.

Borrowers might not care much about how much an appraiser makes, but the borrower would be interested to see how much the AMC makes from the $ a borrower spent - and wonder WTF an AMC is and why an AMC is making half of what the borrower paid.

Regarding public trust, if we believe the public trust is important ( with transparency), then the breakout of fees should state upfront , the day the borrower applies, HOW THE AMC picks the borrower's appraiser. If they hold bidding wars for orders, THAT should be disclosed.

I bet a borrower would be shocked to learn their home purchase of hundreds of thousands of dollars the collateral worth of it rides on a sleazy AMC auction to find the lowest appraisal bid or fee, often bypassing more experienced appraisers. The borrower should have an opportunity to decline that as a way to pick an appraiser

A borrower getting an appraisal should also have a choice: do you want a PDR data collection done, or do you want the appraiser to go out and inspect? Because the borrower is likely to be paying the same $ amount either way.