FANNIE bonds with AMCs, over your dead low paid body.

[AppraisingLA123]

Have you considered engaging more with the reasoning and the content and less with lashing out at the individuals? Because if we're going at it with each other on the personal level then what we're not doing is discussing the content itself.

It's okay to compartmentalize, agree on some things but not others and do some emoting without letting it escalate to "meet me out behind the football field after school". Nobody here has it out for you. I don't think anyone even disagrees with your frustrations.

you said go knock yourself out. I am treating you how you treated me.

 

[Sandra Koutsopoulos]

this is not worth my busy time dong inspections for $ 125. and drivebys for $ 75.

Precisely. Waste of time, waste of gas for very little appraiser benefit.

Y'know, all this AI stuff, supposed to take over the world (and maybe it will), but I don't think it is as reliable as the powers-that-be think it is. After all GIGO, Garbage In/Garbage Out. It may all be sausage-making, grinding and mixing everything of a type, or in an area etc into a mush that is generic and un-specific. Therefore, the cookie cutter valuations may be fairly true, but the oddballs are another story altogether. So there will still be pastures for us appraisers to graze in.

Brings me to another thought.... College Degrees with hellacious price tags and loans that last as long as your mortgage. For decades a degree was thought to be the winning ticket to an exec size desk and salary. But now, the answers a college educated individual might possess the ability to provide, can be gained in milli-seconds with a query to Google. So, what's that specific degree worth today, in light of the loan payments on it? The one thing I will say GOOD about it is that college/university teaches you how to THINK (if you're paying attention), and that ability is worth beaucoup bucks.

But nowadays, it's the person with practical hands-on ability that is needed, like plumbers, electricians, (real) carpenters, mechanics etc.
My auto mechanics practically bankrupted me this year... and plumbing? Yikes! $100s to fix my electronic kitchen faucet. Problem solvers that have hands that provide solutions were never as appreciated as much as they are today. That college degree in who-knows-what... if there isn't a needful practical application, it's not worth much $$$ now.

 

[George Hatch]

Let's review: This is what you said in that particular exchange:

The AMCs must be exposed. Then, these AMC should be reported to the state, where they will lose their license for hiring incompetent appraisers. problem solved. You guys are talking nonstop, while the solution is under your nose. One of you, create a website that exposes these AMCs. i don't have the time to do it, and i'm not that computer savvy. You can even charge people and make money on the side, I will pay to a small fee to share my experience on this website. On the first page of the website, about page, state the mission statement along with how AMCs are harming the public trust, stealing 85% of the fee, legally stealing, and harming everyone involved, etc.

Which that's a stupid idea, not a solution. Not some silver bullet that will finally kill the beast. (and since were on the subject of stupid, kindly note the distinction between me calling an idea or line of reasoning "stupid" vs calling the individual "stupid")

How are you going to prove the appraisers they hired were "incompetent" when the most junior appraisers from the pre-crash runup have already accrued 20+ years of experience when including their trainee hours? You can prove an appraiser didn't work to their demonstrated competency in an assignment but you can't prove they were never qualified in the first place when they've taken the QE, passed the licensing exam, put in their experience hours to first get the license and have since gone through several renewal cycles, each requiring 56 hours of CE.

So in light of the stupid comment I replied

Thanking you for what? For stating the same thing (report them and sue them into submission) that people have been saying since 2009?

Get back to us when you come up with some new tangent to consider that hasn't already been beaten to the bones.

The truth is a defense against the allegation of slander. People have been talking about suing AMCs for shopping by price and engaging unqualified appraisers from the outset. Telling you that isn't a personal attack.

 

[Sandra Koutsopoulos]

I think if asked, Borrowers would agree to pay the appraiser a reasonable fee to actually come to a supportable value conclusion, but feel ripped off paying an AMC the same as the appraiser to email the order their list of appraisers. But even if Borrowers all knew that, and even if they cared about it, they don't have a choice in the matter, though they may have a voice of influence if they'd band together to demand changes. That's about as likely as independent fee appraisers banding together and marching on Washington.

 

[J Grant]

Precisely. Waste of time, waste of gas for very little appraiser benefit.

Y'know, all this AI stuff, supposed to take over the world (and maybe it will), but I don't think it is as reliable as the powers-that-be think it is. After all GIGO, Garbage In/Garbage Out. It may all be sausage-making, grinding and mixing everything of a type, or in an area etc into a mush that is generic and un-specific. Therefore, the cookie cutter valuations may be fairly true, but the oddballs are another story altogether. So there will still be pastures for us appraisers to graze in.

Brings me to another thought.... College Degrees with hellacious price tags and loans that last as long as your mortgage. For decades a degree was thought to be the winning ticket to an exec size desk and salary. But now, the answers a college educated individual might possess the ability to provide, can be gained in milli-seconds with a query to Google. So, what's that specific degree worth today, in light of the loan payments on it? The one thing I will say GOOD about it is that college/university teaches you how to THINK (if you're paying attention), and that ability is worth beaucoup bucks.

But nowadays, it's the person with practical hands-on ability that is needed, like plumbers, electricians, (real) carpenters, mechanics etc.
My auto mechanics practically bankrupted me this year... and plumbing? Yikes! $100s to fix my electronic kitchen faucet. Problem solvers that have hands that provide solutions were never as appreciated as much as they are today. That college degree in who-knows-what... if there isn't a needful practical application, it's not worth much $$$ now.

This is way too simplistic. AI can not replace a career in many cases- it can augment some tasks and replace humans in others and fail at others. .

As far as a trade - that's great, but if too many white-collar jobs are eliminated, who is going to be able to afford to pay the high hourly prices the tradesfolk are getting now?
As you note, college or any form of higher education that is not strictly geared toward a skill teaches one to think, which will be an invaluable commodity to correct all the AI errors and fraud that will go along with it.

 

[AppraisingLA123]

Let's review: This is what you said in that particular exchange:


Which that's a stupid idea, not a solution. Not some silver bullet that will finally kill the beast. (and since were on the subject of stupid, kindly note the distinction between me calling an idea or line of reasoning "stupid" vs calling the individual "stupid")

How are you going to prove the appraisers they hired were "incompetent" when the most junior appraisers from the pre-crash runup have already accrued 20+ years of experience when including their trainee hours? You can prove an appraiser didn't work to their demonstrated competency in an assignment but you can't prove they were never qualified in the first place when they've taken the QE, passed the licensing exam, put in their experience hours to first get the license and have since gone through several renewal cycles, each requiring 56 hours of CE.

So in light of the stupid comment I replied


The truth is a defense against the allegation of slander. People have been talking about suing AMCs for shopping by price and engaging unqualified appraisers from the outset. Telling you that isn't a personal attack.

you might as well go become a advocate for AMCs. you created them, just go join them. OK you did achieve something, you got rid of pressure from agents, i used to be one of those appriasers that was being pressured, and i didn't like it. But your solution, along with 11,000 signatures created another problem. My solution is a beast killer, nobody has proven it won't work.

 

[AppraisingLA123]

I think if asked, Borrowers would agree to pay the appraiser a reasonable fee to actually come to a supportable value conclusion, but feel ripped off paying an AMC the same as the appraiser to email the order their list of appraisers. But even if Borrowers all knew that, and even if they cared about it, they don't have a choice in the matter, though they may have a voice of influence if they'd band together to demand changes. That's about as likely as independent fee appraisers banding together and marching on Washington.

when i sold my property the "appraiser" that did the appraisal was incompetent, and i lost money. The current AMC system affects everyone. If I ever refi or sell, i will worry about the appraisal. I think the solution involves showing people that AMCs only serve their pockets, its a terrible system.

 

[George Hatch]

you might as well go become a advocate for AMCs. you created them, just go join them. OK you did achieve something, you got rid of pressure from agents, i used to be one of those appriasers that was being pressured, and i didn't like it. But your solution, along with 11,000 signatures created another problem. My solution is a beast killer, nobody has proven it won't work.

I had nothing to do with the Appraiser's Petition except for signing it after it got going.
I participated in writing a proposal for structuring the IVPI that the HVCC stipulated the GSEs would create and fund, but it never gained traction and never went anywhere.

As I said before, if you think you can successfully sue AMCs for hiring "incompetent appraisers" then go for it. Nobody is stopping you or trying to dissuade you, least of all me. Just because I can see why neither you nor anyone else will be able to prove your allegations shouldn't be considered "advocacy for the AMCs".

I have said numerous times in the last few years that I literally don't care what happens to AMCs. If they get kicked out of the appraisal engagement loop tomorrow it will be fine by me. I was hoping they would have been kicked out of the loop at the same time as the brokers and that the lenders would have been forced to go 100% direct engagement, but that obviously didn't happen. So yeah, I did switch from being openly hostile to the AMCs back in the day to being more apathetic over time, but that doesn't rise to the level of advocacy. I also supported the C&R elements of D-F as originally legislated but that didn't turn out the way I wanted either.

TLDR; you apparently are underinformed and unaware of what I've been saying on this forum over the years. All you've been doing here in this thread is leaking.

 

[alebrewer]

That is why they call appraisers "vendors".

Only the dumb ones. The smart ones call them 'appraisal partners'. At the end of the day, though, they're exactly that - a vendor (person or business offering something for sale).

 

[alebrewer]

Saying it was a positive event completely overlooking that it created enabled the proliferation of AMCs. The public still has to deal with AMCs. Pay didn't double stop talking nonsense.

Fixed it for ya.