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Fannie Mae's Loss Risk

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Austin...are you smokin salmon again?????

I work for Jones Real Estate College, a division of Dearborn Industries. In order to offer any kind of vocational education in Colorado, the courses must be approved by the state which is no easy task. Additionally, all instructors must have a state teaching certificate. I would agree; however, we don't get paid enough. Now the school has started having the students evaluate the instructor after every four hour session. It starts out with......

"things I didn't like about the instructor"

Most of my students feel it is a big waste of time to do that three times a week. I think it is done to make us feel intimidated.
 
Austin,

The effort did not fly because there was insufficient participation. There simply was not enough interest among appraisers in joining. This was not a shocking outcome and was discussed in some detail at the time. But the only way to find out for sure was to give it a chance. I sure never had any concerns that our small amounts of initiation monies were somehow being misappropriated, and until recently, for Steve to call it quits and return the funds may not have been appropriate -- as we can discuss via email later if you like.

In short, at least in part, it can be put like this:

If a given appraiser has not been unjustly beat-up by an inept and/or corrupt board, they had little personal or financial incentive to join. In fact, there existed several inherent deterrents. Here is one that was never discussed. I did not bring it up because, while true, it would have appeared manipulative and self-serving:

An appraiser who has never had any such problems with their board benefits personally and professionally by the perception or misperception existing in the appraisal community that such lack of "appraisal board experience" is solely and simply a function of their exemplary appraisal practice. To "discredit" the (obviously wise and good) judge, which is the given state appraisal board, is somewhat "counterproductive." Whether the given appraiser is the best and most ethical or the worst of numbers hitters, it makes no difference, the above holds true. The appraisers who bravely joined anyway, and thereby probably drew some attention to themselves on the part of their respective boards are to be highly commended. You and Lee Ann and others fall into that category.

It is similar to the same reason so many appraisers have not signed the Appraisers Petition. They want to keep their heads down. Ironically, I suspect some are now embarrassed that their names do not appear on it, but do not care to sign now as it would draw attention to the fact that they have not yet signed it. I have only heard one good reason -- that was applicable to only one specific appraiser for not signing, and his reasoning sure did make sense. The other reasons I have heard, are similar to this:

"Yes, I am a residential appraiser, but have never
experienced any pressure, and I just don't understand
what all the fuss is about."

They are either liars or fools, or a combination of the two. Period. That might well be one's "knee jerk reaction" after doing a survey of the "hold outs." And actually, even if it was true -- however unlikely -- that an appraiser had never experienced any pressure personally or know an appraiser who had, for them to maintain the position that it therefore does not exist, when it is so obvious to the "typically alert" appraiser that the practice is pervasive, does make you wonder. But the assessment is a bit harsh and simplified. However, there is little question that it demonstrates a good bit of insecurity, and a cowardly inaction on their part. And also it is true that what is often characterized as "apathy" is often in reality high parts insecurity and cowardly...

Many of the people who refused to sign are the types who just do not take "unnecessary risks" with their careers. (Yes, unfortunately that does sometimes imply "course of least resistance appraising" where the appeasing of a client or borrower may trump ethics if that option appears easier or safer). On the other hand, this is not to say, of course, that there are not some blazing numbers hitters who have likely signed the petition..[SMILE]

While I am on the subject, you might be surprised at how many so call "chickenhawks" have not signed the petition. It really is amazing. Just to test the theory, a few weeks ago I made a list of maybe 40 posters I have traded posts with in threads over the months in various forums on AppraisersForum, and then I downloaded the petition into an Excel spreadsheet (absolutely could not be a simpler procedure, BTW). I was batting over 90% with most names. Translation: "Hmmm... well, if I had to guess, I would say this particular individual has a real high probability of being a Non-Signer" -- Type in the name (BTW, for some reason you cannot just cut and paste) into Excel's search function, and PRESTO! -- Damn, I am good!!! There were a few surprises, but not many. Also, I found a meaningful correlation between WHEN someone decided to sign versus predictions -- while it was not as much of a "sure thing" undertaking. For instance, was an individual among the first 1,000 signers, or did they decide it was appropriate to sign only after 3,000 had already signed, see what I mean?

Overall, it was a gratifying and fascinating exercise for the short amount of time it took to do. One encouraging finding was that the majority of "original pioneer AppraisersForum members," you will be happy to hear, were indeed signers even in the case of those who continue the tradition of using "screen names." It took little imagination to figure out how to match them to their "signatures" on the petition, but it was not hard to do.

Back to FAIR, The three founders were Steve, Tom Hildebrandt and George Hatch, if I am not mistaken. They are particularly to be commended for reasons this post has gotten way too long to get into. Also, the effort was quite successful in several very important, but maybe unobvious, ways, and there is "the rest of the story" that I am not at total liberty to get into here, however I will fill you in via email if you like. Let me know. I believe you will agree that it is "redeeming."

dcj
 
David:
First, the reason I brought this FAIR subject up was that I knew that this situation put Steve and the other two founders under a cloud and sooner or later that cloud would rain on their heads. Actually, they were not founders, they just assumed the title because of their bland say nothing non-controversial nature and official persona, traits that doomed the enterprise to failure and resulted in the stillborn birth of the idea. Not only Steve and the other two founders but this forum too could have had serious legal trouble over the status of that money as they were all implicated in its status. As some PM messages I received stated: “Where is that FAIR money and where is the FAIR forum?” Some people were thinking about it apparently.
I don’t agree that the organization would not have worked because not enough people would sign on. You don’t need a lot of people for something like that; you just need the right type of group. For example, in the infantry units in wartime 3% of active combat troops do 95% of the killing of the enemy. It is that way is every walk of life. 5% of the people pay about 75% of the taxes, 5% of real estate agents sell about 90% of the property or did at one time, in churches 5% of the people give 90% of the offering, etc., that is just the way it is. The point being you don’t need an army these days, you just need the Special Forces. My dad once told me this: “Nowhere in the history of the world has there ever been a monument to a committee.” His point was that if anything ever gets done, some person would get it done. He also told me this one: “What is compound stupidity? Answer: A group of idiots on a committee.”
People don’t like to be criticized, especially when they are guilty as hell but they need to be. That is the reason the founding fathers of this nation gave us the right of free speech. Free speech does not mean that a person can say anything they have a mind to say or walk around naked, Free Speech means the liberty to say what ought to be said, and in this appraisal regulatory situation there is a lot that needs to be said. Any time the people being criticized manipulate the medium by which they are bring criticized then the days of that medium are numbered, to wit, the major news media like ABC, CBS, NBC. They gave birth to Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and a host of others that say what out to be said while the mealy mouth establishment crowd is sinking into oblivion. Sad but that has happened on the Internet as well. Restriction of free speech comes in clever disguises but always has the same effect.
One of my favorite sayings is this: “Truth when crushed to earth shall rise again, the eternal years of God are hers, but error wounded writhes in pain and dies among her worshipers.”
 
Austin:

Regardless of your opinion on clouds and rain, you neglect to address the issue. Is the solution I offer acceptable? Or even better yet I can turn the funds over to you and can mobilize your task force and pick up the flag where it was set down. I do not mind constructive criticism. I believe it good for the soul. However, criticism without an alternative suggestion is simply empty complaining. So what do you want to do?

Steve Vertin
 
Steve & Terrell:

Two above posts: We are off topic and Austin what do you want to me to do?

First as to being off topic: This thread was posted by David Johnson in response to about three treads on the same subject posted by me. David and I have been having an ongoing discussion in these threads and private messages for the last few days, therefore the topic is a discussion involving David Johnson and Austin and the topic happens to be what we having been talking about and that is: "What is the underlying problem with this Fannie May Freddie Mac situation." The apparent answer we came with is a lack of accountability. Lack of accountability for the GSE's led to a discussion of the same problem of a lack of accountability for the other GSE's, ASB & AQB, and then some one asked the question "what happened to FAIR that was going to deal with these problems." So in summary the topic is what David and Johnson and Austin happen to be talking about, that being basic accountability.

Second: Steve don't try and make me the villian in this mess. You ask what I want to do and how do I want you to handle it. It ain't my problem. I just saw what you guys had gotton yourselves into and offered you an avenue to clear the air. Your statement that you have no idea who gave what further clouds the issue. I specifically told you when this started that this operation had to be totally transparent and totally accountable for any funds and the mission statement had to be immutable.

I will offer you my suggestions as how to handle this.

First: Post the names of all contrubutors you received money from. That way if any one wants to claim you left their name out they will have the opportunity to respond and you can show good intent as to solving this problem by attempting to be accountable. Invite the ones that gave money to tell you or post how much they sent you.
2. I would give a total accounting of all funds held and the final dispersal.
3. I would make sure my deposit slips and bank records supported my accounting records and keep them handy because all it takes is one jerk to claim he sent you $10,000, and then it is off to the races. As I recall you know very well how that game is played with your 8 year running battle with your state board. Give your enemies a sword and they will use it on you.
4. Take full responsibility for this situation and don't leave anything out. These things fester and start rumors like for example: Steve's case was pending in court after ongoining for 8 years with the IL appraisal Board, then all of a sudden he gets real busy and drops his association with FAIR the very organization he proposed to combate these abuses? Wounder if old Steve palyed lets make a deal. That brings further clouds on the IL board.

I considered handling this by PM but in the light of the topic, "Sunshine Accountability" I thought, hey, if I do that I would be just as back handed as the people I am trying to reform. I am an up front, open, Sunshine kind of guy. In the short run people hate me but when they later realize I did them a big favor they are very appreciative.

For what it is worth, I believe you are open and above board and never would have touched a penny of that money and I have no doubts about George or Tom's character or involvement either. If I wanted to destroy you guys I would just set back and waited for the dead skunk in the wood pile to cure and don't think for a minute it wouldn't have stunk to high heaven. I would not want something like this in my closet festering.

In summary, let the Sunshine in.
 
Austin:

As for making you the bad guy, that is not the intent. I am simply asking for suggestions and trying to do the right thing. However, you remind me of Mel Gibson in the movie where he played a cab driver who saw conspiracy in everything around him. I mean that in an affectionate way because I really liked the character. Further he ended up being right on an important issue. But lets deal with what I perceive as reality, first there was less than or something very close to $1,000 given originally. Most of us make that in a day. We are not talking about a great deal of money. Second the list of providers was on the website, as stated. The website is down. I appreciate the suggestions you have made, but the list of donors is gone. The bank statements, etc., I have. There have never been withdrawals to the account with the exception of bank maintenance fees, check printing cost and account opening fees. All are stated as such in bank statements.

As for someone saying they provided $10,000 there was never that amount to start with and no single donation exceeded $100. Further, we may want to require a canceled check if it becomes at issue. However, I basically believe most appraisers are honest and I think that if we offer the money back, we will end up with a surplus rather than a deficient. But the bottom line is we have no list. I wonder if Wayne has a way of accessing the old site. If he does that may solve our issue. We would have a list and all the pertinent information to begin.

Steve Vertin
 
Steven:
I know approximately how much money you received and I probably can name most of the people that sent you the money but the point is I want every one else to know it too.
As to Mel Gibson, his latest character venture landed him in trouble too. Giving Jesus credit for his suffering. Extremely bad tast in this country to do such a thing and poor Mel is catching the devil for his efforts. "Teaching about a person that exemplified love and compassion may inflame passions of hate," or so they say. That seems to be the fate of those that shine the light of truth in this dark and dying world doesn't it. Maybe the founding fathers of FAIR will send me a crown of thornes for my efforts in this FAIR situation. Or maybe a letter from the thought police about staying on topic no less. I wonder if any one knows what the word "thread" means and why topics posted are called threads?
 
Austin:

I am looking forward to seeing the movie. E-mail me with the names you remeber. I will e-mail either Pam or Wayne. I will also ask if I can put the rebate up as a sticky post. I will try to get to it all done by Monday. I need to think about how to word the sticky post.

Steve Vertin
 
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