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FBI investigates possible loan fraud at IndyMac

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Hopefully there will be plenty of stories past on to those that want to know. Remember they need a percentage of indictments that will make the general public happy, that this is being cleaned up. Again the first Rats to the scene get the best cheese, & IF you think anyone that was your "Friend" will still be your friend, once they are indited I have some ocean vierw propeerty hered in AZ City to sell you. (well it's a salt water Pool) close enough!! in Real Estate work.
 
JH Harriman said:
Well, there's fraud commited by individuals within a company and then there's fraud commited by the company itself. Everybody could have some of the former, but only a few, such as Enron or Indymac, will have the latter.
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Wondering if you can show me an example of a company committing fraud itself?

In my opinion, it is always the individuals who commit the fraud, not the company. Granted, there may be multiple individuals within the company committing the fraud. A company (corporation) is not a living, breathing entity capable of making decisions on its own. It does not have self-awareness or intelligence. It is merely a business entity created for convenience and tax benefits of its officers / owners.

It may seem like the whole company is corrupt. However, I'm willing to bet a few dollars that you will find innocent people trying to do the "right thing" within most organizations.

Some people stick it out trying to make a difference. They may eventually get fired, quit in disgust or end up going down with the rat-infested ship.

PS. In my case, I worked as a review appraiser for Meritage Mortgage / NetBank. I finally quit in disgust and eventually the rat-infested ship sank (was taken over by the feds).

:peace:
 
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Donn Rasch said:
Wondering if you can show me an example of a company committing fraud itself?

In my opinion, it is always the individuals who commit the fraud, not the company. Granted, there may be multiple individuals within the company committing the fraud. A company (corporation) is not a living, breathing entity capable of making decisions on its own. It does not have self-awareness or intelligence. It is merely a business entity created for convenience and tax benefits of its officers / owners.

It may seem like the whole company is corrupt. However, I'm willing to bet a few dollars that you will find innocent people trying to do the "right thing" within most organizations.

Some people stick it out trying to make a difference. They may eventually get fired, quit in disgust or end up going down with the rat-infested ship.

PS. In my case, I worked as a review appraiser for Meritage Mortgage / NetBank. I finally quit in disgust and eventually the rat-infested ship sank (was taken over by the feds).

:peace:
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This is absurd.

Lets get passed the semantics. You don't have a company with the authorized agents. You don't' have fraud without some authorized agent committing it. Sure there are some decent people in these organizations. Some voice their objections, others stand by silent in fear which often makes them accomplices, despite their good intentions.

The argument that companies don't commit fraud, only people do is very profound. Guns don't kill people, people do. So you're suggesting a ban on corporations?
 
Joyce Potts said:
This is absurd.

Lets get passed the semantics. You don't have a company with the authorized agents. You don't' have fraud without some authorized agent committing it. Sure there are some decent people in these organizations. Some voice their objections, others stand by silent in fear which often makes them accomplices, despite their good intentions.

The argument that companies don't commit fraud, only people do is very profound. Guns don't kill people, people do. So you're suggesting a ban on corporations?
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Huh? :shrug:

You do know that within large organizations there are a large number of support personnel that don't have a clue on what's going on don't you?

Are they all guilty by association? Merely because they work there? The single mother secretary trying to feed her children.. Guilty! Because she works for the VP and should know better?

Who suggested a ban on corporations? :unsure:

Was it a bad day out in the field today? :blush:

:peace:
 
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Some companies have a corporate culture that is more conducive to fraudulent activities. Tying compensation directly to some index which can be manipulated is a good way to develop such a culture.
 
Donn Rasch said:
Wondering if you can show me an example of a company committing fraud itself?
Click to expand...

If the organization from the top down promotes, supports and requires unethical practices then that could be seen as "the company" committing the fraud. In this situation the individual who does not comply is reprimanded or fired for "performance issues" or "communication problems" when in actuality they were unable to compete with their co-workers who were being rewarded for unethical practices. While the company may not "officially" institute unethical requirements the results of ethical "under performing" employees being ousted is the same as if the company did "officially" require unethical practices.

On the contrary, if fraud is committed in the name of the company by a representative or a group of representatives but the company takes steps to actively prevent and eliminate fraud and rewards its ethical employees then I would say that this would be an example of individuals committing fraud.

Whether it's the company or the individual within the company that commits the fraud is a matter of corporate culture. We know all to well that most if not all corporations in this industry and their top executives don't care how their employees increase their profits unless they get caught doing something they should not. Promoting and rewarding such practices as a matter of normal business is the company committing the fraud. However, the liability should not be limited to the company but, rather the individuals. In this instance where the top echelon of authority and power within a corporation corrupts its culture to the extent that we have seen then the punishment should be quite severe. But, it won't be. Frankly, I think these CEO's and their cronies that create such environments should be required to pay back to the corporation or its creditors, in Indy's case the American people and its employees, all the money they made while at the helm PLUS penalties.
 
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