FHA Attic Access

[residentialguy]

We're hung up between folks who read, understand and try to comply with 4150.2 and Appendix D and folks who believe that, as long as they explain what they've done and check one of the conditional boxes, their arses are covered. Perhaps the law of averages will protect the latter group until they hit the lottery; and perhaps, in an immediate, tangible sense, there may be little risk in doing it some way other than the manual way: but the law of averages is of no comfort to the losers and will be little little comfort to someone caught not complying with the manual, particularly if they're found having multiple flagrant errors. Just read what the HUD letter and pay attention to what the appraiser was required to do.

RSW - you can lead a horse to water, and all that.

From Appendix D, p. 3:

"These guidelines are provided to assist in the examination of the property. To perform this analysis, the appraiser must have full access to all property improvements.

If unable to visually evaluate the improvements in their entirety, contact the lender and reschedule a time when a complete visual inspection can be performed. This includes access to the crawl space and attic."

It says what it says. How an appraiser reacts to that is entirely up to him.

Wool? It's Spring down here - I've put my wool stuff away. Self-election to higher ground? Shoot, I'm just slogging through the trenches.

First you suggest that some are not complying to the manual and letters. Then you quote the attic text, to which I replied earlier in post 56:

Please give me the link to that. You're twisting it to read like this: If unable to visually evaluate the improvements in their entirety, STOP RIGHT THERE and contact the lender and reschedule a time when a complete visual inspection can be performed.

It doesn't read like that. You could do it like that, just as I could read it like: If unable to visually evaluate the improvements in their entirety, FINISH THE REPORT and contact the lender and reschedule a time when a complete visual inspection can be performed.

Let me ask you something. Once I arrive and measure the home, it is a full fee charge at that point. What difference would it make to FHA if I finish the report and go back to re-inspect it...or to finish the report later, after re-inspection? ...other than possibly FHA losing the deal by going past closing, which I'm sure that's what they are hoping for.

I'm not saying it's my way or the highway...just saying that the procedure is not defined..as you are insinuating in that your way is the law.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

(deleted).........

 

[Delta85]

You are correct. It is the homeowner's responsibility to provide access to the attic. If access is not provided then the subject will be rejected by the FHA until access is provided. What is so hard to understand about that. Not all properties will qualify for the FHA program. This is an underwriting issue and not an appraisal issue.

I understand the FHA guidelines, I was just commenting on some previous posts that kind of made it look as though it was the appraisers job to have an adequate ladder with him for inspection.

I don't believe appraisers are required to bring anything more than their appraisal ID plus driver license or state ID, a camera, something to measure with, and a pencil and notebook for notes to an inspection. Having to bring ladders or any other contractor type "tools" is not something I was taught nor something an appraiser should be exptected to supply.

We are doing a visual inspection. For FHA perhaps some basic additional testing of utilities, garage door openers, etc. But overall we are doing a visual inspection.

 

[Delta85]

I do a lot of vacant homes and if I don't bring my ladder, I will be within my rights....I'll also be out of work.

Understood. But there has to be some person of contact you speak to before setting up the inspection. Whoever that contact is should be told they need to supply access to all areas of the interior and exterior, including attics, outbuildings, etc.

If one wants to bring a ladder that's fine. I just did not want this to be confused with a REQUIREMENT to bring a ladder.

 

[RSW]

I understand the FHA guidelines, I was just commenting on some previous posts that kind of made it look as though it was the appraisers job to have an adequate ladder with him for inspection.

I don't believe appraisers are required to bring anything more than their appraisal ID plus driver license or state ID, a camera, something to measure with, and a pencil and notebook for notes to an inspection. Having to bring ladders or any other contractor type "tools" is not something I was taught nor something an appraiser should be exptected to supply.

We are doing a visual inspection. For FHA perhaps some basic additional testing of utilities, garage door openers, etc. But overall we are doing a visual inspection.

Why are you even in the appraisal profession if you don't want to do what is necessary to do your job? I would be willing to bet that more than 90% of appraisers doing FHA appraisals take their own ladder and other equipment to the site. I would not want to have to wait for someone to show up with a ladder or dig it out of their garage or shed in order for me to inspect the attic. I also think it is a good idea to have the MLS lock box key so that I don't have to meet a Realtor at the subject property. The time savings is much more worth than me saying "Someone has to meet me at the subject property to let me in." Most Realtors I have delt with in the past have been late on the majority of the inspections I have done.

 

[Scott R Marshall]

I agree about the ladder thing but I am also tall (currently about 6' 3" but as age sets in so does gravity) and a 4 foot ladder works very well. If you were shorter a longer ladder would be required which pretty much means a van, minivan of pickup truck is the only vehicles which would allow you to bring it along. I also think a flashlight is another item which is almost a necessity for doing this kind of stuff.

If by chance I showed up and my 4 foot ladder didn't work, I have at that time asked the owner if they had a larger ladder. I have yet to run into an instance where it could not be done if there was a panel allowing access.

I understand the concern about bringing ones own ladder. At times the "path" allowing access to the panel is less than clear of personal objects and I have always been fearful of knocking over that priceless Ming vase stored in the garage. May be a better idea to have the owner set up their own ladder. As I haven't broken or scratched anything yet I am not paranoid of it but all it takes is that one instance.

 

[RSW]

I agree about the ladder thing but I am also tall (currently about 6' 3" but as age sets in so does gravity) and a 4 foot ladder works very well. If you were shorter a longer ladder would be required which pretty much means a van, minivan of pickup truck is the only vehicles which would allow you do bring it along. I also think a flashlight is another item which is almost a necessity for doing this kind of stuff.

If by chance I showed up and my 4 foot ladder didn't work, I have at that time asked the owner if they had a larger ladder. I have yet to run into an instance where it could not be done if there was a panel allowing access.

I understand the concern about bringing ones own ladder. At times the "path" allowing access to the panel is less than clear of personal objects and I have always been fearful of knocking over that priceless Ming vase stored in the garage. May be a better idea to have the owner set up their own ladder. As I haven't broken or scratched anything yet I am not paranoid of it but all it takes is that one instance.

It must be getting close to Friday because we are actually starting to agree on something.

 

[Scott R Marshall]

I also suppose even Muslims and Jews agree on a couple of things!

 

[Delta85]

Why are you even in the appraisal profession if you don't want to do what is necessary to do your job? I would be willing to bet that more than 90% of appraisers doing FHA appraisals take their own ladder and other equipment to the site. I would not want to have to wait for someone to show up with a ladder or dig it out of their garage or shed in order for me to inspect the attic. I also think it is a good idea to have the MLS lock box key so that I don't have to meet a Realtor at the subject property. The time savings is much more worth than me saying "Someone has to meet me at the subject property to let me in." Most Realtors I have delt with in the past have been late on the majority of the inspections I have done.

Why am I in the profession? Why are you? Do you treat clients, borrowers, and realtors as rudely as you do posters on this forum? You are the guy from the other thread who bashed a poster for asking what you thought was a useless question. How does it feel to be so perfect? I'd really like to know.

Getting back to the topic I'm pretty sure guidelines indicate access has to be provided TO US by the homeowner, realtor, etc. Where does it indicate that an appraiser needs to come to an inspection ready to inspect any attic of any height or location?

I was not taught to bring a ladder. Access is the homeowners responsibility, not mine. I drive a small car not fit for storing or carrying a ladder. I was not under the impression appraisers drove vehicles equipped to carry ladders as a rule. Other appraisers I know do not bring ladders either. If they do that's their choice. It's not a requirement. If the homeowner is not ready with a ladder at the time of inspection after I have told them over the phone I need access to the attic and all areas of the interior/exterior I am under NO OBLIGATION to hang around while they fish out a ladder from their shed. I tell them I'm pressed for time and make the report subject to inspection of attic.

You bring your own ladder? Good for you. You gonna drag your own ladder through someones house, up a flight of stairs, into a bedroom closet potentially hitting the walls or knocking a kick knack off a table? What if your ladder is not high enough? You got several ladders? Do you drive a roofing truck to your inspections?

 

[Mr Rex]

So you don't do vacant houses? Or do you demand that Sally High Heels Realtor bring you her ladder when doing a vacant purchase?