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FHA Deck Railings

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Noreen

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Hampshire
to update,the appraiser stands by his "safety" demand. For those of you with the Napoleon complex? Please know that it is noted
,

In all fairness I have been told that once there are two or more risers, that it is recommended there be railings. I mentioned that the building code allows for higher platform and was told that they are still concerned with the safety of the occupants. ( The imaginary two year old going flying off the edge).
 

timd354

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Maryland
Thanks for the update. We recognize that Cleopatra flippers feel entitled to sell unsafe deck properties, regardless of the rules. :)
Which rule requires a railing on an 18 inch high deck?
An 18 inch high deck surrounded by grass with no railing is a safety issue? Gimme a freakin break...if this is really a safety issue, then why do none of the major building codes in effect in this country not mandate a railing for a deck of that height? The Napolean complex among some appraisers is indeed alive and well.
 

Riick

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Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Delaware
The Napoleon complex among some appraisers is indeed alive and well.
You're talking about that short guy who conquered most of Western Europe?
We could do worse.
 

timd354

Elite Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Maryland
You're talking about that short guy who conquered most of Western Europe?
We could do worse.
Yeah, how did that all work out? He should have stayed in Western Europe, but being the megalomaniac he was, he instead thought he could conquer the world and ended up getting his *** kicked in Russia. Then, when he still had not learned his lesson, he got his *** kicked again at Waterloo and was subsequently banished to St. Helena, which is one the most remote islands in the world.
 

Peter LeQuire

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Tennessee
If the requirement is being made by the appraiser, it is within the FHA DE underwriter's authority to modify or remove that requirement. If the appraiser simply noted the deck and its height above than nice, grassy lawn, the DE underwriter can still remove the requirement. But then, I don't know whether a flipper's profit is better served by delaying closing and arguing with the underwriter, the appraiser, whether local code is adequate protection of the house buyer, or by installing a deck and getting the deal closed. Maybe one of the CG tuned in can calculate the time value of the money the flipper doesn't have in hand to help him/her make that decision.

My good friend Prudence suggests that it's probably in Flipper's interest to get the deal closed and move on to the next one.
 

jay trotta

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Connecticut
Health & Safety, is not measured in inches;

it may be more likely measured by insurance requirements; Nobody controls Insurance Policy, but the Insurance Company !

Suggestion; put the railings up if you want the loan
 

Elliott

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oregon
"The FHA underwriter has [today] notified me that the deck requires a railing, I assume because the appraiser called it out."

As an appraiser, I don't second guess or argue with UWs requirements when it comes to FHA. The other day I had a hot head seller who wanted to call me out about my requirements because he was good friends with the city's building inspector. I told him to save his breath, a FHA appraisal and its underwriting standards are about a 700+ page Handbook 4000.1, not about building codes. FHA made the rules, if you want the property to get the mortgage, meet the requirements.
 

Vermonter

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Vermont
"The FHA underwriter has [today] notified me that the deck requires a railing, I assume because the appraiser called it out."

As an appraiser, I don't second guess or argue with UWs requirements when it comes to FHA. The other day I had a hot head seller who wanted to call me out about my requirements because he was good friends with the city's building inspector. I told him to save his breath, a FHA appraisal and its underwriting standards are about a 700+ page Handbook 4000.1, not about building codes. FHA made the rules, if you want the property to get the mortgage, meet the requirements.
My main clients "USDA specialist" is also a stickler about deck railings. I don't argue either.
 

Mr Rex

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Yeah, how did that all work out? He should have stayed in Western Europe, but being the megalomaniac he was, he instead thought he could conquer the world and ended up getting his *** kicked in Russia. Then, when he still had not learned his lesson, he got his *** kicked again at Waterloo and was subsequently banished to St. Helena, which is one the most remote islands in the world.
Napoleon was so short that Fannie Mae would require safety rails because he was a protected class.
 

Noreen

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Hampshire
My main clients "USDA specialist" is also a stickler about deck railings. I don't argue either.
I'm with you and Elliott, they are indemnifying that information for the life of the loan, I can only indemnify that I am telling the truth to the best of my ability for that assignment at time of the on site visit.
 
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