FHA Foundation Perimeter Question

[cjolson]

Hello I am new to this forum so please be gentle. I live about 60 miles ne of Nashville tn an am trying to get a FHA refinance for my mobile home. I have had serious problems with getting my appraisal. The Company came out and did the first inspection and said every thing was fine but when the report was turned into my lender it had numerous repairs that needed to be done( hand railings,water filter system,Outer parimeter). Any way I had all the repairs done with the exception of the outer perimeter as there was never any clairifaction from the Appraisal company. So they come back out to do the final report and thats when they tell me that the entire Skirt wall around the home has to be replaced with a Concrete or brick or pressure treated lumber. The hole foundation has had to be inspected by a licenced Structural engineer and has passed with out a problem. I have searched the FHA guide book 4930.3G and a few others (I guess older rev.?) and all of them say that They are Not intended to be used on existing homes. I have had a few est. done and the cheapest one was over $7000. What can I do to get this taken care of because i do not have that kind of money laying around. Thank you for any help.:icon_question:

 

[Thern Newbell]

The requirement is in the Permanent Foundation Guide for FHA. Unfortunately there are many Stuct Engineers, appraisers, underwriters, etc, unaware of the requirement. Your estimates-- were they for concrete block or for a few alternatives? You may want to call FHA's HOC (homeownership center--Atlanta) for some idea of what they may accept.

 

[cjolson]

The cheapest one I could get was for 8" block. The contractor said that in order to do the parimeter the house would have to be jacked up at one end so they could dig a footer and make a level surface. I konw it would be cheaper with pressure treated lumber but the appraisal company keeps saying they will not pass that on the report. This has already cost me about $3000 dollars as I had to have a new tie down system installed for the engineer to sign off on the foundation. Is there any exceptions to this rule as this place was set up around december of 1995 and from all the books have been refered to at some point or another they say that they are not intended for use on existing homes? Thank you for all your help

 

[OSU Beavers]

Your appraiser is wrong. Here are the skirting requirements:

PERIMETER WALLS/SKIRTING: Load Bearing or Non-Load Bearing.
a. A continuous concrete footing/wall must satisfy the frost depth requirements
b. MASONRY: Must have mortared head and bed joints, reinforced and grouted.
c. VINYL: Can be used above ground level only and is allowed, except in the Philadelphia HUD office areas.
d. TREATED WOOD: Can be above grade with concrete footings.
e. STEEL FRAME ANCHORED IN CONCRETE FOOTINGS: Can be used with a variety of wall surface materials, limited by those materials acceptable for below ground level use.

 

[RSW]

I would assume your home is a manufactured home. Here are a few documents that may help you.

 

[Thern Newbell]

Interesting! I have spoken to the HOC before on a couple of occassions and they said that vinyl was only permitted as a cosmetic covering over a more durable material (i.e. treated wood, masonry, etc). They even sent me an email stating that vinyl skirting alone does not satisfy the 'durable materials' requirement. I would still confirm with the local HOC for clarification.

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

http://www.HUD.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/ref/sfhp1-9d.cfm

Is the link to foundation and installation requirements. All foundation and installations are to be inspected by a licensed engineer for compliance with the Permanent Foundation Guide for Manufactured Housing. The licensed engineer makes the determination--not the appraiser. The skirt wall per that guideline is required to be do durable material--for example, concrete block, masonry, pretreated wood, etc. Vinyl skirting would not be a durable material so it would need to be backed by concrete block, masonry, pretreated wood, metal, etc, etc.

 

[Thern Newbell]

The cheapest one I could get was for 8" block. The contractor said that in order to do the parimeter the house would have to be jacked up at one end so they could dig a footer and make a level surface. I konw it would be cheaper with pressure treated lumber but the appraisal company keeps saying they will not pass that on the report. This has already cost me about $3000 dollars as I had to have a new tie down system installed for the engineer to sign off on the foundation. Is there any exceptions to this rule as this place was set up around december of 1995 and from all the books have been refered to at some point or another they say that they are not intended for use on existing homes? Thank you for all your help

I would suggest that you call the FHA HOC (1800-call-FHA) and tell them your issue. Pressure treated lumber is permitted according to the FHA perm foundation guide, so I don't know exactly why the appraiser is saying that they won't 'pass' it on the report (local code requirement, possibly/ or a subdivision restriction). The appraiser you are dealing with may have good intentions, but may not completely understand the requirement. 'Permanent Foundation' is assumed among many to mean simply a masonry foundation, but FHA is not that restrictive.

 

[hambone]

Your appraiser is wrong. Here are the skirting requirements:

PERIMETER WALLS/SKIRTING: Load Bearing or Non-Load Bearing.
a. A continuous concrete footing/wall must satisfy the frost depth requirements
b. MASONRY: Must have mortared head and bed joints, reinforced and grouted.
c. VINYL: Can be used above ground level only and is allowed, except in the Philadelphia HUD office areas.
d. TREATED WOOD: Can be above grade with concrete footings.
e. STEEL FRAME ANCHORED IN CONCRETE FOOTINGS: Can be used with a variety of wall surface materials, limited by those materials acceptable for below ground level use.

This is pretty much the guidelines I follow when appraising manufactured homes in my area. I've had multiple conversations with HUD regarding this exact issue. Followings these guidelines should be just fine.

A typical manufactured home on steel beams is designed to be supported by the beams. I've seem multiple homes with concrete block perimeters that were required to be put in place by an uninformed appraiser. That's a lot of $ for a misinterpretation of the guidelines. The perimeter is not structural.

I'm sure you could use corrugated tin, aluminum, or even some type of stucco on wire.

However, when is question, call HUD.

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

Per Chapter 1 - General Information of the Permanent Foundations Guide for Manufactured Housing--Page 1-1, C. Definition of permanent Foundation. Permanent foundations must be constructed of durable materials; (for example) concrete, mortared masonry, or treated wood - and be site built. It shall have attachment points to an anchor and stabilize the manufactured home to transfer all loads, herein defined, to the underlying soil or rock. The permanent foundations shall be structurally developed in accordance with this document or be structurally designed by a licensed professional engineer for the following: 1. Vertical stability--- 2. Lateral stability------.

Exterior Foundation Wall: Foundations placed directly below the exterior perimeter walls of the unit. These walls may, or may not be structurally used as bearing walls under horizontal loads. If these walls are not used structurally they are called non-bearing skirt walls.

Foundation Types:
Type C: Foundation system supported and anchored at chassis only, to equally spaced piers.
Type E: Foundation system supported at chassis and exterior wall but anchored for uplift and overturning at exterior wall only
Type I: Foundation system supported at chassis and exterior wall but anchored for uplift and overturning at exterior piers only.

National Homeownership Center Reference Guide:
Manufactured Homes:
Foundation Compliance
Chapter 1
Appraisal and Property Requirements
Page 1-09d

1. All foundation systems, new and existing, must meet the guidelines published in the Permanent Foundations Guide for Manufactured Housing, dated September 1996 (For a copy, see Mortgagee Letter 97-36). A certification attesting to compliance with this handbook must be obtained from a licensed professional engineer and included in the insuring file. This procedure does not apply when the current FHA borrower refinances their loan. It is applicable for all resales.

2. HUD Handbook 4145.1, Rev-2, Section 3-4. C. Criteria for Existing Properties, dated Feb. 1990 states: "The foundation design information in HUD Handbook 4930.3, Permanent Foundations Guide for Manufactured Housing, Appendices A,B and C, may be used to verify the design of the existing system. Provide a licensed professional engineer’s certification to verify compliance with the handbook guidelines and with the requirements set forth in paragraph 3-4.B." HUD Handbook 4930.3 was republished in the Permanent Foundations Guide for Manufactured Housing.

3. Permanent Foundations Guide for Manufactured Housing (PFGMH). This guide as well as software can be ordered by calling (800) 245-2691 or from the web at http://www.huduser.org