FHA Lender shopping appraisal

[Lee Lansford]

...What about FHA changed over to Conventional requests(are you trying to tell me that the borrower has no options to move their loan for any reason and the lenew lender cannot order an appraisal)?...

New assignment.

 

[Gary Schinagel]

Lenders can pass the FHA Appraisal around like popcorn for six months.If a new lender is going conventional then it's a new order and a new appraisal.The original appraisal should have stated (Indended users ) FHA/HUD only , or something to that effect..

I took the verbage right out of the handbook and it states "The intended use of this report is the Lender Client & FHA/HUD". Appreciate the help if nothing else it proves to me how open to interpretation this topic is.Which is probably by design there are just to many variables. I hope to have this topic covered for others thanks to people like you! I can only think of one key word after all my provable research on the right protocol and or intent. DISCLOSURE!

 

[Bama Bayou]

New assignment.

What if it is FHA to FHA. Same case number different lender on a three month old appraisal. Original lender has given permission to disclose contents to new lender. No date change, no lender name change, same case number. New lender wants two additional comps.

What to do?

 

[Mike Boyd]

I agree with Tucson and Greg Bell. COMPLETELY new assignment if it is changed from an FHA to conventional. What you charge for it is your business decision.

 

[Gary Schinagel]

This is true unless the new lender wants additional comps and a cost approach. I have one now that was transferred to a new lender. They have called and emailed about 50 times demanding I make these changes.

I demanded that they have the original lender send me a signed letter that I had permission to divulge the contents of the report to them.

The original lender just sent the release letter.

Now I will demand a new engagement letter for the additional charges for the comps and cost approach.

How did that work out with the transfer? Did you check with FHA connection? What ended up being the proper protocol? I know I get different answers from HUD all 3 times I called. Its not okay. You can Transfer(I thought we did away with transfers not FHA) but leave same Lender etc. FHA to FHA. FHA to Conventional. Purchase or REFI. Im going to keep checking and get back to you. Please also let me know what you found out too. Thats what this forum is about. Back at you soon.

 

[ZZGAMAZZ]

Perhaps the required verbiage should be "the client or HUD" rather than "the client and HUD" consequently providing for any number of lenders to share the report. (don't mean to get hung up on semantics but it's a slow week.)

 

[Gary Schinagel]

I pulled that verbage out of the 4150 handbook, even cut and paste it along with the home inspection verbage also. They way its been described to me its probably Lender/Client and FHA /HUD is that they internally can play that pass the appraisal around game without us. But I have not been able to verify if. It most certainly breaks the intender user RULE of ALL AO and handbooks. Thats why I am so hung up on it. My original question was so long because this intended user thing is held against us to the highest standard and I am seeking a platform of minded individuals that are basically setting these standards in real life. Basically I am still very much uneducated on this matter till I recieve consensus or review one and continulaly find something new. They have these rules bent going in. No transfers new assignment no releases needed etc. But hell they are switching that apprasial around without even asking. THATS WHY ITS WORDED FOR THEM. But of course you in all praticality are to restrict and its intended use and thus are required to have a higher level of fudiciary duty OUTSIDE FHA. Then BEFORE THAT. My question is when does this client relationship cease. My in house PHD MAI the esteeemed Dr Vincent G Barrett states and I quote"when the task for the intended pupose is completed" Then I said what about ambiguoisly open ended tasks like ESTATE planning. The smart aleck told me "when the actual market value does not reflect the prior report its becomes useless". Well then I said what about El Paso where new housing sells for 85+/- per ft(which is cost to me) meaning what if the sleepy market never changed. The point I am making is that their the GOV interpretation of what we do is firm to the highest degree while them not praticing same. Imagine you not changing the name or date on a report and sending it to only 2 Lenders. You would get the customary ordering of the local gentry firing squad which I will not mention. But they do not realize they are shooting themselves. We should demand an AO's on these topics in cronilogical order as we would do our adjustments. Intended user(we discussed),Clent relationship termination(we discussed), New assignment and reinspection/effective date(not for them of course and still open to discussion). Rebuttal process if any. More data to whom. It goes on and on. Also I would be willing to share my original stacking order for FHA including supplements for you to look at and critique because I have had to basically plagerize the 4150 and other reports to see whats out there. THEY DO NOT GIVE US A MINIMAL form stacking order. We as a group need to design one and refine it. Some here choose to spend their time however standing firm in their cement shoes while poking holes in their own ship. Anyway I will have the answers to these questions at least by consensus of my own office. Dr Barrett though does not deal with FHA HUD. So I am going outside the loop. Heck the 10 guys I trained all certified now are grilling me too! COFFEE TALK turns to beer drinking. Anyway I am starting to ski the back side and myopic, they are ALL better than me, I HOPE!
Is there a damn spell checker on this thing?

 

[Webbed Feet]

What if it is FHA to FHA. Same case number different lender on a three month old appraisal. Original lender has given permission to disclose contents to new lender. No date change, no lender name change, same case number. New lender wants two additional comps.

What to do?

Mr. Bayou,

You have not told us about the parameters being asked for regarding those two additional comps. Sometimes, the devil is in the details.

I will assume the second lender is asking for comps that have closing dates that fall inbetween the effective date of that appraisal and the time of their request three months later. We have a host of issues to think about.

A) Regardless of the fact your "Client A" gave you a release document allowing you to discuss the appraisal with this third party that is asking for newer comps... that release document does NOT transfer the appraiser / client relationship to this third party. So in short, this third party asking, demanding, whining about, new comps is NOT your client! That would be the first little matter I would drill into their wittle brains.

1. Given "A" above.... If they are asking for more recent comps, it would take your expertise to pick them out... we are talking about an "Update" or "New Assignment" per USPAP here with a new analysis. How does the HOC respond to this? Is FHA issuing a new case number, for a new assignment, as this may result in a possibly different opinion of value? It has to have a new effective date.
2. If they are asking for more comps existing at the time of the prior effective date, as if they are saying your job you did was not adequate... again, they are not your client. Also, I am assuming your job you did WAS adequate per the SOW agreed do with your real client. So in essence, they may be altering your agreed SOW and they are not even your client!

Now I just bet some nimrod at FHA/HUD will come back with some non-USPAP compliant answer that the wise appraiser would cooperate with the innocent sounding request for more comps. But a new effective date with newer comps is a new assignment. I thought HUD did not allow a new assignment on the same subject for 6 months. Older "different" comps could be an alteration in the SOW. How can you modifiy the SOW for someone that is NOT your client on that assignment, after the fact? Or contrary to 03/05 form prohibition to alteration of the SOW? I think I'd want to see the official document from FHA asking for more comps myself. I'd sure be demanding to know what the issue is that they cannot submit that appraisal as is for FHA purposes.

Webbed.

 

[Farm Gal]

The way its been described to me its probably Lender/Client and FHA /HUD is that they internally can play that pass the appraisal around game without us.

Absolutely correct.

But I have not been able to verify if.

I have and don't worry about it - the report is intended to STAY with the House for 6 months regardles... however in a changing market the new lender probably won't want to bite anyway

It most certainly breaks the intender user RULE of ALL AO and handbooks.

Don't worry your head - it is the government and they are here to help you And as Mr Santora will undoubtedly stop in to say - AOs ain't USPAP. :laugh:

Thats why I am so hung up on it.

Don't be - there is a little thing what used to be a Supplemental Standard which sort of applied - And a Govenment Enity can do more or less whatever their published rules say they can do.

My original question was so long because this intended user thing is held against us to the highest standard and I am seeking a platform of minded individuals that are basically setting these standards in real life. Basically I am still very much uneducated on this matter till I receive consensus or review one and continually find something new. They have these rules bent going in. No transfers new assignment no releases needed etc. But hell they are switching that appraisal around without even asking. THATS WHY ITS WORDED FOR THEM. But of course you in all practicality are to restrict and its intended use and thus are required to have a higher level of fudiciary duty OUTSIDE FHA.

and they can because they can and they want to... sorry but that is the bottom line!

you said a lot of stuff -

It goes on and on.

COFFEE TALK turns to beer drinking. Anyway I am starting to ski the back side and myopic, they are ALL better than me, I HOPE!

snicker - have another one or two Adan it will start to make sense but take your aspirin BEFORE the morning - and for heavens sake don't call me when it quits making sense tomorrow!!!

Is there a damn spell checker on this thing?

try IEspell.com Its free and works nicely on ALL Internet sites. You just have to remember to use it!:blush:

 

[Webbed Feet]

Real estate appraisers generally do not have fiduciary duties. We are not agents.

Webbed.