Form 2075 Vs. 2055

[Steve Owen]

John Henry. I respectfully disagree, at least with part of your thinking. For a homeowner with excellent credit, and high LTV ratio, based on tax or AVM valuation, there is probably little reason for a complete appraisal. In some of these cases, limited or drive-bys are ordered. However, home value is only part of the risk factor for a lender. If the LTV is in line (even when based on valuation methods less reliable than an appraisal) the home value can be assumed to be okay for someone with excellent credit and little other debt. When 2075's are ordered, it is usually as a double check to be sure there are no red flags that would make further analysis necessary.

 

[Carnivore]

Originally posted by Bill Wintermyer@Jan 23 2004, 02:32 PM
Andrew and John, this intellectual property theory will go nowhere, and why you think to yourself? You used intellectual property from county records, MLS and other secondhand data sources to support your intellectual property that has become the intellectual property of the client/user(s).....

Bill,

What is your basis for disagreeing. My basis for advancing this idea comes from an intellectual property attorney.

 

[Bill Wintermyer]

Hello Andrew,

First, I do not want to make conclusions on such a broad based theory. What specifically within the report that you communicate to your client(s)/user(s) is being claimed as "intellectual property"?

Bill

 

[Carnivore]

Bill,

Good question and it has a simple answer. The Comps w/adjustments. Comparables for a subject are not available in the public arena. Sales certainly are, but not comparable sales. Additionally, the market reaction is not available in the public domaine without substantial individual work.

At any rate its going to get interesting.

 

[Scott Kibler]

Andrew,

I'm not sure if intellectual property even comes into play. It is my understanding that AVM's are driven off statistical analysis of public records and MLS data; GLA, date built, date sold, room count, etc. I don't think appraiser derived adjustments on appraisal reports or appraised values are even considered assuming that data is at hand.

My opinion is subject to a greater understanding of the AVM product.

 

[Carnivore]

Scott,

I doubt that AVM's use MLS data. Most MLS data is is copyrighted and I dont know of any MLS systems that sell or license their data for use in that way.

 

[John Henry]

Andrew

They are getting their data from numerous sources one being us. Everytime you do an appraisal for Washington Mutual, Bank One or any other lender using the AL Ready software you are supplying them with data. The pull data from county records, they have agents do BPO's and I am not sure but I have heard that some of these companies have actually joined MLS services and are pulling data this way. FNMA and Freddie are developing their own AVMS from the refined data from the loans they buy. Like I keep saying get rid of the de mimimus (or reduce to reasonable amount) , AVMS disappear along with alot of our other problems.

 

[Bill Wintermyer]

Andrew,

That is the basis of my point.... The MLS information is proprietary to the MLS, thus as an appraiser using the information an appraiser cannot claim "intellectual property" since using the information is allowed by the MLS to appraisers to help facilitate the real estate transaction.

What a tangled web we weave.....

As a side note, heard a good point as to the 80's S/L scandal.... The commentator stated that the Govt. was the reason for the collapse. His reasoning, the tax laws at the time almost dictated anyone with Mucho Denary to invest/hide $$$$ for TAX relief. Then the good ol powers to be up and changed the tax laws without notice, thus a mass exodus and devaluation of such properties.... But someone had to take the fall for such a debacle, it wasn't going to be the LAWMAKERS, so fingers went to the APPRAISAL profession....

 

[Carnivore]

Bill,

The MLS data in itself is still just sales until we turn thme into comparables sales.

Interestingly, it is my position that people/organizations like fannie mae are stealing data that I only owned by license, which did not extend to them. I also took this data from a copyrighted source(i am licensed), refined this info and applied it in such a way that is unique to the subject. For anyone to take this information and sell it to an AVM operator without my permission is theft. My reports clearly state who the intended users are and intended use. To resale this data is no different than making copies of music, pictures and things of that nature. I gathered the information from various sources, reduced it, analyzed, compiled and place it in a format that made sense.


John Henry, I agree with the deminimus issue.

 

[Non Sequitur]

Andrew, IANAL but I think that in order for you to claim a violation, you would have to have had some sort of notice in the report. I have never read an appraisal report with any language that would put anyone on notice that the report is the intellectual property of the appraiser. I'm not saying that it can or can't be done, but if it can, I would do it.