Foundation Sinking, Need Help. Please throw life perserver!!

[Gary L. Martin ...]

Thanks everyone

Any other differing opinions or data would be appreciated.

Gary ...

 

[Austin]

I was involved in a case once to appraise a warehouse that had collapsed and the owner claimed it was due to wind damage suffered as a result of a big thunderstorm. This was a case about insurance coverage for specific types of damages. If the wind caused the damage, it was covered by the insurance. If something else caused the damage, it was not covered. I inspected the property with the lawyer for the insurance company. It was obvious that wind had nothing to do with the collapse. The wall collapsed on a side where dirt was pilled against the wall up to a depth of about four feet and shielded from the wind. I also found a history in the property of sinking foundations and support pilasters.
I told the lawyer he needed a soil engineer because this problem had something to do with the soil. I learned some interesting things as a result of this case. As it turned out, the soil engineer determined that the wall collapsed, not because of the wind that resulted from the storm, but from the pressure caused by the rain in the storm when the soil got wet. If you pile dry dirt against a foundation wall it will have X amount of pressure per sf against the wall. But if the dirt gets wet, the pressure will increase on the order of “40 to 50” times the pressure of dry dirt. So 50 pounds of pressure can quickly become 2,000 pounds of pressure.
This was a case scheduled for Federal Court and I was qualified as an expert witness. The judge looked at the evidence and threw it out of court. A couple of weeks later the lawyer that hired me sent me a copy of a letter he had received from the Federal Judge. The judge stated in the letter that no cases would be heard in his court without scientific supporting data. No more: “Based on my 30 years of experience in the field.” That was another reason I started using regression methods.
Something else that came up was the definition of market value in the insurance policy: “Actual cash value.” After much research between the lawyer and me, we figured out that the definition hinged on what the lawyers called the “Broad Evidence Rule.” This is something you may want to file away for future reference. Actual cash value means under the Broad Evidence Rule means that anything you find out in any time frame about the property can be used as evidence. For example, a building collapses and you discover the cause and the cause could not have been discovered unless the building had collapsed, then you can use it as evidence. Basically anything you can found out that influences property price in any time frame can be used.
The next case I got involved in was a restaurant that burned down. I used the Broad Evidence Rule based on the history of the property. It was a 19th Century Rail Road station converted to a theme restaurant. I showed the original purchase price, the operating history, a recent sale of the business and fixtures, and a lease of the real estate to the purchasers of the business. This was an obvious scam operation set up to defraud the insurance company. So, if you are ever called upon to do an appraisal for an insurance claim, or any claim for that matter, the first thing you had better do is get a clear definition of market value and be aware of the Broad Evidence Rule. I think the Broad Evidence Rule only applies in Federal Court.

 

[Nancy in Friday Harbor]

Gary,

Can't resist getting my 2 cents worth in..... and I will state for the record that, although my father was a civil engineer, I am not an engineer nor do I claim to have a lot of engineering experience.

Your appraisal problem is not to put yourself in the place of the engineer who determines if the "fix" is good enough. Your role is as appraiser here. You need to question and be sure in your own mind that the engineer in question is qualified for this type of assignment. (Is he a P.E.? I think that carries some additional help with the liability issue). LeeAnn's comments about a soils engineer are right on. Or a qualified geo-tech engineer.

If he is qualified, are you relying on his expertise? If so, you are going to make the EXTRAORDINARY ASSUMPTION that the fix will work. I guess I might throw in the hypothetical condition that these "experts" really do know what they're talking about.

Reference the stigma, have any other homes in this subdivision experienced foundation problems? Settling? Cracks? Diagonal cracks in the interior drywall? Is there a local real estate agent who specializes in this neighborhood and who might know of any skeletons? If there is evidence of wide spread problems, then you have another issue. If there is no evidence of problems other than this house, the chances of the market remembering a couple of years down the road is slim. In my experience, stigma (suicide, death, fire, etc) doesn't last very long.

Don't put yourself in the position of being more than an appraiser, in this situation. I'll bet none of these engineers will "guarantee" a forever fix. Don't assume this little item from them!!

I hope you are charging your clients A LOT OF MONEY!!! This is going to take a lot of work!

Cheers & good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

Nancy

 

[jtrotta]

Lee Ann;
you said - "Nope - no egring degree, never sayed I did had one" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I never knew rolling on the floor was sooooooo much fun. I really didn't mean :evil: anything by it, but it obviously got ya by the short ones, cause that language you speak is definitely twisted 8O Well it's been fun being hear on Saturn, but I need to get back to Earf , so I can misunderstand more.

You Thank, back be soon 8)

 

[Gary L. Martin ...]

Guys & Gals

Thanks, again for the varied opinions. I really appreciate them. Keep them coming. As we used to say, "Two weeks ago, I couldn't spell In-gan-ear (engineer), today I are one!!!"

The silage pit is the only place in the whole subdivision that is sinking. (Wonderful stable soil.) It also appears to have been taking part of a city street until it was repaired a few years age. However, there ar some cracks also appearing in the road, with some settlement. Which makes me wonder further about the finality of the proposed fix.

FYI, today I remembered 5 sales early 1990s where the lots were raised by excaviting and using a mixture of clay & silt from a playa lake to increase water retention capacity in the lake and raise the lots above the flood plain. The sinking & shift began within the year.

They were purchased by the builder's home warranty insurance program and corrected with excavation, piers, and interior repairs. The owners were cashed out.

All were then sold to a single investor in at that time in a declining market who is presently renting all 5 properties. The fix appears to have held, there are no other resales of the affected properties.

I am having a heck of a time verifying this stuff in a non-disclosure state, with original purchasers being long gone, an out of state (now defunct) developer, and a Realtor who has non-dosclosure a part of a court settlement requirement.

The fun continues. If I can find and verify, I need to determine what part the market decline played as well. The fee is steadily increasing.

Gary ... :lol

 

[Nancy in Friday Harbor]

Gary,

Lee Hess of San Diego(?) has appraised & testified all over the country about soil subsidence issues and stigma/damage to the properties. He is also a great instructor of CE classes -- you can reach him through McKissock. Might be worth an email to see if he can offer any examples.....

Good Luck,
Nancy

 

[Farm Gal]

Lee Ann;
you said - "Nope - no egring degree, never sayed I did had one"
.................
I really didn't mean :evil: anything by it, but it obviously got ya by the short ones

Hey Trotta:
Au contraire!
I expended no small effort to insure that my 'manglism' contained no two contigious correctly utilized words, had to rewrite it twice to make sure.

Wanted to clearly convey that "I are a college graduated person which are non-degreed for choice of topic".

Any of my other magled sentences are the result of bad typing skills poor editing, or a lack of any re-reading whatso ever..

 

[Gary L. Martin ...]

You go girl,

I can't spell or type either. Someone once told me that the super speed of highly intelegent people only gets slowed down by written communication. Why can't you read a doctors writing???

Gary ...

 

[Austin]

Lee Ann: I don’t have a degree in theology or law, but I know right from wrong. There is a difference between wisdom and knowledge. Wisdom is a gift of grace and knowledge is store bought. The biggest problem in the world today is people with great knowledge but little wisdom. I use to work in a brokerage office with an old farmer and when people would ask him if the land had any timber value on it, he would reply: “I ain’t no timber appraiser, but I can tell the big trees from the little trees and there are a lot of big trees on that land.”

 

[Farm Gal]

Austin:

When it comes to existing damaged foundations over unstable soils, BOTH wisdom and knowlege are advised...

Of course the best answer is don't DO that!