"furnace" Not Hard Wired

[Barry Kirsch]

I inspected a 2-family yesterday, it had hot water heat downstairs , but a space heater upstairs which was plugged into the wall...now... just last week somebody told me FHA says it has to be hard wired, which is what i thought also, but., i looked in my FHA guidelines but found noithing specific, unless i am missing it... which is totally possible...but does anytone know either way for sure...
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Thanks
barry

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

it does!

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

From the HOC Reference Guide


4: Non-Conventional Heating Systems - All non-conventional heating systems, such as space heaters and others, must comply with local jurisdictional guidelines. Often these are not acceptable as the primary source of heat.

If you're happy with the space heater being adequate, it will need an inspection by the local municipality.

But since you apparently have no heat source upstairs, I'd call for a heating certification. Time to pass the buck to a professional.

Ben

 

[Mountain Man]

But since you apparently have no heat source upstairs, I'd call for a heating certification. Time to pass the buck to a professional.

Ben, who would provide such a certification? A compliance inspector, or a HVAC man?
I'm just asking, and I agree with you..... pass the buck! I'm not going to do the DEU's job; But, I can't see too many heating and air contractors wanting to write a letter saying "yeap, the plug in heaters will do"....... they want to sell a heater.

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Mel,

You know, I don't know...The poster is from Michigan so I know it gets really cold there.

Now, check out this scenario. HUD requires heat. I believe that the heater must maintain 70degrees inside when it's 0 degrees outside. But that can be old hat, who knows. Now, in the old days if the house had electric heat, it had to be insulated, even the floor joists in the crawl space or basement to keep the utility cost down for the borrwer...well actually to keep the borrower from not paying his mortgage due to high electric bills and giving the house back to HUD

Do you remember the days when we had to estimate the heating expenses for FHA appraisals?? I still have those charts by fuel type and house square footage in the office somewhere

So let the HVAC guy or whoever the DEU is happy with certify that the space heater is acceptable and installed to local standards. If a new system is required, the appraiser is out of it.

I look at it this way, by using the certification method, I don't have to mess around with cost estimating or adjustments for functional obsolescence in the Sales Comparision Analysis.

I love those certs......

Ben

 

[Mountain Man]

So let the HVAC guy or whoever the DEU is happy with certify that the space heater is acceptable and installed to local standards. If a new system is required, the appraiser is out of it.

Man, wish I could get out of it that easy. I was asking because I have one DEU that is extremely hard to deal with. If I say "get a cert", inevitably they'll call back later insisting that I do an inspection, or approve the system. Then we go round and round because I say "use what you got from the contractor". I don't think she quite gets it (need an emoticon with me banging my head on the desk).... I'm not qualified.

Having thought about my past relationship with this DEU, I think I would just require some type of space heat permanently mounted, and hard wired. Then give them a "final" after I got a clear "Okay" fax from the HVAC man.

I guess the DEU and I have an interesting history and I'm letting that get in the way of logic.

Thanks for help getting me back on track. :scrambled: :alien:

 

[Ghost Rider]

Also - HUD Handbook 4150.02 states that there needs to be a heat source in ANY room with plumbing - Does that space heater cover the bathroom upstairs, if there is one?? If not, then you need to have them do something in there - I.E. A strip of Electric Baseboard will cover it. I do a lot of 2-4 families where the primary heat souce is a gas-gas stove in the kitchen - I ALWAYS make them install the ELBB in the bathrooms.

 

[Wally Jones]

Barry,

Here's the section on heating from the HOC Reference Guide:


"C: Heating:
1: General: ALL habitable rooms must have a heat source. This does not mean that each room must contain a heating device but that each room must receive sufficient heat.

2: Wood Stoves and Solar Systems: Dwellings with wood burning stoves or solar systems as a primary heat source must have permanently installed conventional heating systems that can maintain at least 50 degrees Fahrenheit in all living areas and those containing plumbing systems. These systems must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations.

3: Floor Heaters: Due to the inherit dangers of a floor heater it is highly recommended that floor heaters in need of repair be replaced with another permanent heat source.

4: Non-Conventional Heating Systems - All non-conventional heating systems, such as space heaters and others, must comply with local jurisdictional guidelines. Often these are not acceptable as the primary source of heat.

5: Propane tanks must be a safe distance from the dwelling. Leased tanks are acceptable when not offered for sale. Propane fired furnaces located in a crawl space area is not acceptable."


So , all habitable rooms must have "sufficient" heat.
Space heaters are "often" not acceptable as the primary heat source.

Sounds like Ben's advice is good - let the DEU have the heat situation figured out by a professional heat person or waive the condition.

MHMerriman - I believe the requirement for rooms with plumbing has to do with wood stoves/solar heat - but I could be wrong.