Gated Community

[Couch Potato]

A statement somewhere in the report that it was too much trouble to drive by the property is not likely to help when the order indicates a drive by was requested, and the preprinted language in the form says it was part of the scope of work.
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Nothing in this thread was about saying it was too much trouble to drive by the subject? This is about where legal entry is denied for review appraiser to view the subject, such as a guard gated comunity or long private drive with no tresspassing signs. And USPAP states the appraiser can change or modify or expand the prepirnted SOW when developing the assignment, as long as the appraiser feels they can develop credible results.

If a house was wiped out two years later by a storm and doesn't exist anymore, if it existed at the time of the review apprasisal that is what matters. It would be an extremely rare case where an original apprasier appraised a different house than the subject. I have read some really terrible and fraudulant ortiginal appraisals, but all of them, bad as they were, appraised the right house. Of course review appraisers are somewhat limited in that no matter what, they almost never enter the interior and have to rely on original appraisal. Still, the fraudulant/inflated appraisals are pretty obvious with a bit of reserach. Most of the fraud occurs with not identifyng market conditions (saying it was stable when declining), or in comp selection, or wrong adjustments. Some try to fudge subject site or location, forgetting to mention the subject backs up to a railroad tracks, for example. But with today's overhead maps, even if an appraiser can't enter a gated community, they can see those externam obsolesence on an overhead map. In any event, if a rev appraiser can't enter, they should clearly disclose it on the form and the client/user will know the report is subject to that condition.

I have never encountered a community where access was not granted once sufficient effort was made. Just because the guard will not let you in and the initial request to the HOA was not successful does not mean the place is not accessible. Every place is accessible with sufficient patience and persistence. If an appraiser does not get in it would be because they viewed it as too much trouble IMHO.

 

[J Grant]

I have never encountered a community where access was not granted once sufficient effort was made. Just because the guard will not let you in and the initial request to the HOA was not successful does not mean the place is not accessible. Every place is accessible with sufficient patience and persistence. If an appraiser does not get in it would be because they viewed it as too much trouble IMHO.

You live in a diff area then...or have never done review appraisals. In an origination appraisal,access is granted even if it takes a while. In a review, usually the assignment states do not contact homeowner. Therefore, the rev appraiser does not, and will never get owner pemission.

In a guard gated community, they WILL NOT let you in without homeowners permission. Otherwise, they'd let every burglar in with a good story.

As far as using subterfuge, not going to do it, don't recomend others do it. If you think lying and sneaking into private communities is okay I don't agree with it, and it is not a matter of "too much trouble", an assignment does not include the client okaying an appraiser to gain access by sneaking in after other cars or pretending they are there for another purpose etc.

 

[Couch Potato]

You live in a diff area then...or have never done review appraisals. In an origination appraisal,access is granted even if it takes a while. In a review, usually the assignment states do not contact homeowner. Therefore, the rev appraiser does not, and will never get owner pemission.

In a guard gated community, they WILL NOT let you in without homeowners permission. Otherwise, they'd let every burglar in with a good story.

As far as using subterfuge, not going to do it, don't recomend others do it. If you think lying and sneaking into private communities is okay I don't agree with it, and it is not a matter of "too much trouble", an assignment does not include the client okaying an appraiser to gain access by sneaking in after other cars or pretending they are there for another purpose etc.

That is simply not true. No, you can't just drive up and expect to be let in. Neither can you simply make a phone call. However, your can use professional correspondence with reasonable argument to gain access. I doubt there is a much tougher place to gain access than a gated area within a gated area I had to go to just west of Orlando. No small number of very famous people live there, and privacy is at a premium. It took three weeks for the process, but they escorted me in for thirty minutes on a Thursday morning.

 

[J Grant]

That is simply not true. No, you can't just drive up and expect to be let in. Neither can you simply make a phone call. However, your can use professional correspondence with reasonable argument to gain access. I doubt there is a much tougher place to gain access than a gated area within a gated area I had to go to just west of Orlando. No small number of very famous people live there, and privacy is at a premium. It took three weeks for the process, but they escorted me in for thirty minutes on a Thursday morning.

Was that for an origination appraisal or a review appraisal? Who eventually gave you permission to enter?

 

[Couch Potato]

Was that for an origination appraisal or a review appraisal? Who eventually gave you permission to enter?

It was a review appraisal. Permission was granted via the HOA that actually voted on my proposal in a meeting. Quite a paranoid group.

In that instance I arranged for a member of the security team to escort/supervise me as I viewed the residence and four comparable sales. I negotiated to have the security guard take the photos I needed to ensure the privacy of the residents since they didn't want to allow me to have a camera while I viewed the properties. It was obvious the original appraiser spent far less time in the development than I did.

I think the key points in such requests being successful are to demonstrate respect for the privacy of the residents, show a benefit to the residents, exude professionalism at all times, be persistant, and be creative. I easily spent as much time working on access to the community as I did the review itself.

 

[J Grant]

Couch Potato , I give you props, I never went to those lengths to get into a gated community to have the HOA board vote if I could get in! Being that it took you 3 weeks, most of the reviews I did they needed in 3-5 days. Still I congratulate you that is a super diligent effort and am sure your client appreciated it. What if they voted no? I guess at that point you would have made the ultimate effort to get in.

On origination appraials I have taken weeks, waited for original letters to be sent from banks to HOA assoc etc. I have never taken that approach on a review appraisal where the owner did not know the appraisal was being done or might be adersarial to me getting in community. In the case of this HOA board voting to let you in, was the house vacant? Or did what the owner want just not count and they voted around them?

 

[Couch Potato]

I suppose at some point I would have given up, but the next step would have been to resent the request through my attorney. The fee on the job was $1,200 so I wasn't going to give up easily. :icon_mrgreen:

 

[J Grant]

It sounds like an unusual job with an unusual fee and circumstances. Most review appraisals are needed in 2-5 days, the client would never wait 3 weeks for access. I still don't understand where the homeowner was in all this...was the house vacant? did the HOA vote to let you in to ext inspect a vacant house? Or did they just vote without the home owner knowledge? Somethingt missing from the story, interesting as it is.

 

[JSmith43]

What is the flight ceiling there, Couch? 1,000 Ft? I'd have been tempted to rent a Piper Cub with the windows that open upward.

Steer with your knees while banking & you could get some nice photos with a 400MM+ lens & high speed film so you could use a fast shutter speed.

 

[Delta85]

I have never encountered a community where access was not granted once sufficient effort was made. Just because the guard will not let you in and the initial request to the HOA was not successful does not mean the place is not accessible. Every place is accessible with sufficient patience and persistence. If an appraiser does not get in it would be because they viewed it as too much trouble IMHO.

So if the guard refuses access and the HOA was unhelpful and there is no realtor or homeowner contact what other options are there and what is the due diligence expected at that point? Would it not be the client and/or owner who is responsible for supplying access?