Give me a break

[GWISC]

Fannie's world is perfect and all homes fit nicely into the ratings perfectly. Adjustments for all elements of comparison can be determined with paired sales analysis.

In Fannies world:

-There is no such thing as a house with a remodeled kitchen, but old roof and a 50 year old bath. What would the Noble Appraiser deem that condition rating to be? That does not fit with their perfect square pegs and square holes concept.

-How about a POS exterior with a remodeled interior. Oh wait, that never happens, ever.

-Oh, how about the new basement finish, but original 1970's main floor decor.

Yep, that video clears everything up. Thanks Fannie.

BTW, does anyone else think that the driftwood-gray LVP flooring will be short-lived like woodgrain paneling of the 70's?

 

[DWiley]

Chewbacca let the cat out of the bag. “Your house does not need to be in tip-top shape” Translation your house be gutted and trashed, and it makes no difference to us or the GSEs.

If it made no difference, then we would not be using a model to project condition. I know appraisers will not like hearing this, but we test the model monthly, and it always outperforms appraisal reports with regard to having a proper condition rating.

How do we know this? Because every month there are thousands of cases where someone was offered a waiver but did not accept it. In those cases we have the results of the condition model and we have an appraisal report. That is perfect data for comparing the machine to the human.

 

[KHS445]

If it made no difference, then we would not be using a model to project condition. I know appraisers will not like hearing this, but we test the model monthly, and it always outperforms appraisal reports with regard to having a proper condition rating.

How do we know this? Because every month there are thousands of cases where someone was offered a waiver but did not accept it. In those cases we have the results of the condition model and we have an appraisal report. That is perfect data for comparing the machine to the human.

So you deem the waiver model is correct and the eyes on the prize appraiser is wrong? I can see where the two would differ but without a properly trained and unbiased inspector how do you know which interpretation is correct? Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand how one source is considered correct more often than the other.

 

[Mejappz]

If it made no difference, then we would not be using a model to project condition. I know appraisers will not like hearing this, but we test the model monthly, and it always outperforms appraisal reports with regard to having a proper condition rating.

How do we know this? Because every month there are thousands of cases where someone was offered a waiver but did not accept it. In those cases we have the results of the condition model and we have an appraisal report. That is perfect data for comparing the machine to the human.

The ivory towers have gotten so deep in your head your not able to think straight. How about this. Why don’t you let me test your model? Please send me your data in a spreadsheet format of a neighborhood or market area. I get to pick. I will test it out and provide you with the outputs, including ratio studies of how well the model did. Deal?

 

[Mejappz]

So you deem the waiver model is correct and the eyes on the prize appraiser is wrong? I can see where the two would differ but without a properly trained and unbiased inspector how do you know which interpretation is correct? Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand how one source is considered correct more often than the other.

Neither is right or wrong. Condition and quality ratings are opinions. One appraiser can have an opinion that a property is in between a C2 and a C3 rating.

Reason and logic would allow the appraiser to call the property, say C2.5 Take a look at cost books which are based on thousands of properties nationwide, and they all contain half-steps or anywhere between six to 12 ratings you can choose from.

There is nothing wrong with that. I can understand if one comes in at C2 and another at a C4. Then something is off.

 

[DWiley]

So you deem the waiver model is correct and the eyes on the prize appraiser is wrong? I can see where the two would differ but without a properly trained and unbiased inspector how do you know which interpretation is correct? Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand how one source is considered correct more often than the other.

Well, when a report says a property is in C3 condition, but it contains photos showing a bad roof, collapsing ceiling, carpets with bare spots, etc etc, I would submit I really do not need someone else to go look at the property. We are not playing a game of gotcha over C3 vs C4, we are looking for serious errors that affect our risk

 

[Overimprovement]

I did a 1004 yesterday that had significant updates in the last 5 years. I was engaged only after a desktop came in way low for not accounting for said updates. I have numerous stories of this and the flip side as well where a house was in horrible shape on the inside.

Short of recent interior MLS or homeowner supplied pictures, I find it quite incredible that a model will predict condition better than a full inspection would. Quality I can buy somewhat but condition?

I have to think there may be more to this story. I am willing to consider some misunderstanding by appraisers of UAD rating definitions--for which I blame those who created those definitions--but not as much for observational deficiencies.

What would have been really nice all these years would have been for Fannie to communicate with appraisers and say look, you gave subject a C3, Q4 rating. We think it should be x, and y and here is why...

 

[djd09]

Well, when a report says a property is in C3 condition, but it contains photos showing a bad roof, collapsing ceiling, carpets with bare spots, etc etc, I would submit I really do t need someone else to go look at the property. We are not playing a game of gotcha over C3 vs C4, we are looking for serious errors that affect our risk

sounds like USPAP violations , did you turn them in?

 

[DWiley]

I did a 1004 yesterday that had significant updates in the last 5 years. I was engaged only after a desktop came in way low for not accounting for said updates. I have numerous stories of this and the flip side as well where a house was in horrible shape on the inside.

Short of recent interior MLS or homeowner supplied pictures, I find it quite incredible that a model will predict condition better than a full inspection would. Quality I can buy somewhat but condition?

I have to think there may be more to this story. I am willing to consider some misunderstanding by appraisers of UAD rating definitions--for which I blame those who created those definitions--but not as much for observational deficiencies.

What would have been really nice all these years would have been for Fannie to communicate with appraisers and say look, you gave subject a C3, Q4 rating. We think it should be x, and y and here is why...

Oh, there is a lot more to the story. I think most appraisers would be shocked at the type and extent of data that is available. I know I was

And, yes, improper use of the ratings by appraisers is a factor. Too many seem to have never actually read those definitions that they include in their reports. Just look at the threads we have here arguing about condition ratings.

 

[Mejappz]

Oh, there is a lot more to the story. I think most appraisers would be shocked at the type and extent of data that is available. I know I was

And, yes, improper use of the ratings by appraisers is a factor. Too many seem to have never actually read those definitions that they include in their reports. Just look at the threads we have here arguing about condition ratings.

Most of them are hired by your AMC friends.