GLA- Enclosed Patios Can They Be Counted & Why?

[ASAP Residential]

Can you count an an enclosed patio in the GLA and meet compliance with FHA/HUD and if so, how must it be constructed?

 

[Tom D]

no, no, no. unless it's heated, and quality finished like the rest of the house. if your going to add the enclosed patio to the GLA, don't forget to add the other enclosed patio currently used as a garage to the GLA. is this a trick question?

 

[The Matrix]

It can be included in the GLA, if it is heated. However, the utility of this space is frequently inferior to the original structure. If that is the case, the enclosed porch would have a contributory value p/sf which would be lower that the original structure. Also, it may not be appropriate to compare the subject to comparables which were orginally built with the extra square footage. ie. a 2,000 sf house which includes finished garage area, may not be comparable to a 2,000 sf house that was originally built with the extra square footage.

 

[glenn walker]

The cost to construct an enclosed in my area is less than 1/3 cost of original construction. Enclosed Patio rooms , Sun Rooms etc do not have to be built on a foundation and many are on 4' concrete slabs much like a sidewalk. I rarely include an enclosed Patio or Sun -Room into GLA and there have been maybe two cases in the last 25 years where the enclosure was of similar construction quality . Also most enclosed patios have a flat or limited pitch roof and no central heating or cooling or insulation in the walls or ceiling. .As far as FHA 4001 it was written for the entire Country and if you are not sure contact your local HOC and explain the quality of the construction and if the market would accept this area as gross living area. BUT be prepared for your HOC to tell you to go find some similar comparable sales with enclosed patios that were included in the GLA. YIKES: RABBIT TRAIL TO HELL

 

[Restrain]

We have 'Florida Rooms' that may or may not become GLA. As Tom indicates, is the quality and finish equal to the primary structure, heated and cooled as the primary structure. If yes, GLA. If enclosed, but NOT of the quality and finish, not GLA. If there is a functionality issue, that can be a separate issue.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

If I can tell it is remodeled, then I hesitate to call it GLA. I am administering an estate where the house is worth $50,000 less than the insurance calculates. I finally jawboned it down from $90,000 too much insurance. Saved the estate a couple hundred dollars.

The reason is pretty simple. It is a 1,300 SF house with 1 bath, 2 bed, brick exterior, late 60s. There was a one car garage. They enclosed it, then added another one car garage or it was a two car garage that was divided. I think it was added on because of the "odd" configuration of the garage jutting out now. In any case, the additional 300 SF is an office and closet (or a bedroom?)...used as an office. Finished, but the heat /air flow is marginal and you have to step up into the house from that space. This is below grade. So it is a 1,300 SF house, with addition and 1 car garage brick. And the insurance computer program values it based on the tax card. So it values it as 1,600 SF with 1 car garage, 1 bath, 3 bed....
So the house is valued at $155,000 and I think we will be hard pressed to get $100,000. Oh, well. It basically is a replacement cost new policy. $100 a SF should replace it easily and the land is worth $30,000 or so,

 

[normando]

If public records include the enclosed patio in GLA, I would include it. This way other comps with enclosed patio (permitted of course) would have it included in GLA.
Nevertheless, I never found an enclosed patio included in GLA.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

The test of "is it heated?" is - IMO - incomplete. The posts above are on point. As an additional observation, these areas (enclosed patios, "Florida" rooms, etc.) are generally built outside the envelope of the house itself; many are glass enclosures with a package heat and cooling ("motel") unit; very low pitch roof. Many are simply open to the house (typically to a family room or dining room, generally with a sliding patio door). Many are added onto modest houses (starter or low end tract houses), and, if included in GLA, are uncomparably larger with most of the reasonably otherwise comparable houses.

I find that most of these installations appear to have value contribution more similar to that of a screened porch than of additional living area.

 

[Person of Noninterest]

FHA Handbook 4000.1 covers this quite extensively, including how to configure properties with these features in the SCA. Not trying to be snarky, but I would suggest reviewing the relevant sections of the handbook.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

FHA Handbook 4000.1 covers this quite extensively, including how to configure properties with these features in the SCA. Not trying to be snarky, but I would suggest reviewing the relevant sections of the handbook.

I have, and the next time I do an appraisal for a HUD transaction, I will again. In the meantime, here is the applicable portion of the HUD 4000.1, p. 441:

"iii. Additions and Converted Space
The Appraiser must treat room additions and garage conversions as part of the GLA of
the dwelling, provided that the addition or conversion space:
• is accessible from the interior of the main dwelling in a functional manner;
• has a permanent and sufficient heat source; and
• was built in keeping with the design, appeal, and quality of construction of the
main dwelling.
Room additions and garage conversions that do not meet the criteria listed above are to
be addressed as a separate line item in the sales grid, not in the GLA. The Appraiser must
address the impact of inferior quality garage conversions and room additions on
marketability as well as Contributory Value, if any."

I don't know if this rises to the "quite extensively" standard, but is certainly adequate guidance for most of the additions/patio rooms/enclosed decks I've encountered.