GSE Waiver & Data Collection Data

[George Hatch]

"Was there an inspection in this assignment? Well your right someone has to answer that question.
I guess the first question is: Who or what defines what an inspection is or entails? The 2nd question is who was the inspector & what is his phone #? The third question is when was inspection conducted. The fourth question is does this inspection results align or is similar enough to other sources of property data? Well I suppose that an actual on-site inspection by somebody must have the date of that inspection. Then , can the appraiser contact the inspector with questions? Reason I ask that is because all of our MLS sheets have the names and phone #'s on the sheet. listing agent and selling agent.

NC is a real problem for Harry the PDR Dude. You see we have licensed home Inspectors. If a PDR dude states anything about condition that dude is in hot-water for practicing without a License. Now they can do this all day long as long as they do not receive compensation and do not identify themselves as a home inspector.

AEven us appraisers in nc have to be careful. The GSE's Condition ratings is our out. Private non lender assignments are a little more risky, Although if you used the GSE condition ratings in that private assignment , you probably would be OK.

Well that's my 2 cents

You changed the formatting from the way I posed that question.

"Was there an inspection in this assignment?"​

I deliberately framed that rhetorical in that manner because the term "assignment" has a specific definition in USPAP which is not based on the combination of documents in a loan file. The assignment is what the appraiser starts out with. That appraiser's workproduct is but a subset of the documents the client ends up with. Heck they're using some of the PDRs without any appraisal being performed.



In the case of the hybrid, what inspection requirements were included in the agreement between the appraiser and the client? What did the client expect the appraiser to do? What did they not expect the appraiser to do? Nobody can allege that the client in unaware of what they're asking for, and by the same measure nobody can claim that Fannie/Freddie don't know what to expect in the appraiser's workproduct from this assignment. After all, whether for better or worse this type of appraisal assignment was all their idea in the first place.

Q: So what were the inspection requirements for the appraiser's assignment?
A: There were no inspection requirements in the agreement between the appraiser and the client. Nobody expects the appraiser to perform an inspection in this assignment.

If the discussion is about an appraiser's exposure to sanctions from their regulator or legal liability for a service they did not perform those arguments are waged based on how the law actually reads, so the use of these terms ion our standards matter, and the use of the state's terms in their own laws matter. This is how lawyers work, and it would be foolish to assume a lawyer cannot formulate the same observations I'm making.

What will not work in a court is starting with the result (the lender made a loan and there's an appraisal in there somewhere) and the proceed to backfill the reasoning (the appraiser is responsible for the work a 3rd party performed) via presumptions.

 

[George Hatch]

Word manipulation and making up new terms to skirt laws and rules. Theyve been doing it for over a decade. For a profession i was told was based morals, ethics, and transparency, it’s now mostly scams and unethical behavior.

Money will do that to most people.

What new term in USPAP that relates to this situation do you think was fabricated or altered in intent within the last 20 years?

And stop whining about semantics. The entire purpose of clarifying USPAP and the legalese writing is to inhibit the ability of the donkeys and their lawyers to get away with misuse of these terms. Every time the belligerents lose an argument based on their misread of the fundamental concepts and principles they always revert to blaming the semantics for not meaning what they thought it meant. We can practically set our watches to the timing of those pivots.

As for the states, they are free to add extra requirements and limitations of their own to their laws and regs. In the event of a conflict the law always prevails. No question.

 

[J Grant]

If you walk through a properly to
collect data that's a visually conducted inspection. It doesn't matter what your looking for. We're now just playing word games and it's becoming nonsensical.

Words have meaning.
Why do you think that the lenders and public use the word inspection? Becauwe the idea that someone walks through a house to do a "data collection" is inane.
That is why the GSE reps here keep saying Data collection but know that is not what anyone else calls it.

The GSE's call it a Data collection on legal advice, because an inspection implies the person is crossing into appraiser territory - like on what planet was it imagined some third party would be sent into a home to act like a robot and "gather data" - USPAP could not even conceive of it as written and therefore only address appraises and trainees and says an inspection is part of appraisal practice when it involves opinions and justmetns of the appraiser. Which is why the robot PDC person does not assign Q or C ratings.

 

[Carnivore]

My Bad GH i was just winging it ...from memory, I should have written a more thoughtful comment.

 

[Surf Cat]

If you walk through a properly to
collect data that's a visually conducted inspection. It doesn't matter what your looking for. We're now just playing word games and it's becoming nonsensical.

I believe my bold is where the disconnect is. The PDC is taking a photo of the side of the house because it's required so they can check the box. An appraiser is noticing the walkway pulling away from the house, the quality of construction, the stucco work, type of windows, maybe seeing a part of the roof and noticing it already has three layers of asphalt roofing or that it's sagging.

You can start all over again on the interior. The PDC is taking a photo because their checklist tells them to. The appraiser is noting the condition, materials, quality, functional layout.

The PDC drives to the subject property via Google maps. The appraiser is noting the types of dwellings, styles, width of streets, proximity to parks, schools, major thoroughfares, etc. on the way to the subject.

I've never done a hybrid. However, and I've stated in here before, my mentor has. In short, it's a lot harder than it seems. Especially when it's your signature. He stopped doing them BTW and came away with the inspection (as well as delineating the neighborhood) is a vastly important, intrical element, in valuing a home.

It appears that's what appraising is coming to. Prior to us being phased out that is. I'm going to treat the hybrid just as I do I drive by..... conservatively.

 

[J Grant]

What new term in USPAP that relates to this situation do you think was fabricated or altered in intent within the last 20 years?

And stop whining about semantics. The entire purpose of clarifying USPAP and the legalese writing is to inhibit the ability of the donkeys and their lawyers to get away with misuse of these terms. Every time the belligerents lose an argument based on their misread of the fundamental concepts and principles they always revert to blaming the semantics for not meaning what they thought it meant. We can practically set our watches to the timing of those pivots.

As for the states, they are free to add extra requirements and limitations of their own to their laws and regs. In the event of a conflict the law always prevails. No question.

We are not inventing and changing the semantics, the GSEs are.

Show us where the term "data collection" occurs in USPAP. Or the term "data collector". ( I bet neither term is present)
IDK who you mean as a donkey.
The GSE's were advised by their legal departments to avoid claiming these non licensed folks are inspectors or doing an appaisl inspecoitn or an inspection. The lenders, however, lack that constraint, and so do the RE agents who are doing this data gathering. Either one might use the word inspection or inspector, - who is going to track them down for it? Nobody.

The borrowers and investors think some kind of inspection was done since a person showed up and perhaps used that term. They often have a general assumption that the person who came to the house is associated with the appraiser or endorsed by them. They are not informed that the appraiser has no knowledge of who the PDC person is and likely will never talk to them .

 

[glenn walker]

Words have meaning.
Why do you think that the lenders and public use the word inspection? Becauwe the idea that someone walks through a house to do a "data collection" is inane.
That is why the GSE reps here keep saying Data collection but know that is not what anyone else calls it.

The GSE's call it a Data collection on legal advice, because an inspection implies the person is crossing into appraiser territory - like on what planet was it imagined some third party would be sent into a home to act like a robot and "gather data" - USPAP could not even conceive of it as written and therefore only address appraises and trainees and says an inspection is part of appraisal practice when it involves opinions and justmetns of the appraiser. Which is why the robot PDC person does not assign Q or C ratings.

What should it be called ? Is there a Special Word or Term you like ?

 

[J Grant]

I believe my bold is where the disconnect is. The PDC is taking a photo of the side of the house because it's required so they can check the box. An appraiser is noticing the walkway pulling away from the house, the quality of construction, the stucco work, type of windows, maybe seeing a part of the roof and noticing it already has three layers of asphalt roofing or that it's sagging.

You can start all over again on the interior. The PDC is taking a photo because their checklist tells them to. The appraiser is noting the condition, materials, quality, functional layout.

The PDC drives to the subject property via Google maps. The appraiser is noting the types of dwellings, styles, width of streets, proximity to parks, schools, major thoroughfares, etc. on the way to the subject.

I've never done a hybrid. However, and I've stated in here before, my mentor has. In short, it's a lot harder than it seems. Especially when it's your signature. He stopped doing them BTW and came away with the inspection (as well as delineating the neighborhood) is a vastly important, intrical element, in valuing a home.

It appears that's what appraising is coming to. Prior to us being phased out that is. I'm going to treat the hybrid just as I do I drive by..... conservatively.

Exaclty. The appraiser is suppsed to get the same informaltinmm thrid hand from someones notes and photos but it is not the same as a first hand impression.

It is like being handed a list of ingredients and a photo of the food, instead of the experience of eating and tasting a meal.

 

[George Hatch]

Words have meaning.
Why do you think that the lenders and public use the word inspection? Becauwe the idea that someone walks through a house to do a "data collection" is inane.
That is why the GSE reps here keep saying Data collection but know that is not what anyone else calls it.

The GSE's call it a Data collection on legal advice, because an inspection implies the person is crossing into appraiser territory - like on what planet was it imagined some third party would be sent into a home to act like a robot and "gather data" - USPAP could not even conceive of it as written and therefore only address appraises and trainees and says an inspection is part of appraisal practice when it involves opinions and justmetns of the appraiser. Which is why the robot PDC person does not assign Q or C ratings.

I am going to show you 2 pictures which speak to the actions of the individual and the expectations of the users. Both are taken off of GSE appraisal forms.


---------------------------

 

[George Hatch]

Exaclty. The appraiser is suppsed to get the same informaltinmm thrid hand from someones notes and photos but it is not the same as a first hand impression.

It is like being handed a list of ingredients and a photo of the food, instead of the experience of eating and tasting a meal.

I completely agree. Less is always less.

But by the same measure, the users sometimes think less is sufficient to purpose. It was always like that - albeit to the lesser degree - since before any of us got into this business.