Hi My Name Is

[Marc T. Girard]

Do you know shark actually DOES taste just like chicken. It's a bit more firm but throw some batter on it, deep fry a tasty batch and POW!... you've got JawsMcNuggets! Just be sure to spit out things like license plates, keys, old beer kegs...etc.

 

[Mountain Man]

Chicken?? naw..... I don't think so, more like pork to me. What do you think fake scallops, fake crab meat, etc are made of?

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Pollock

 

[Don Clark]

B) Jeff,

I cannot speak to any issue of the Florida Real Estate Appraisal Board. However, as Red has said, they have no authority over anyone but appraisers so that will always be the focus of their consideration, good or bad.

However, I will take issue with the you in that you have directed your comments to one of the most active appraisers in this country today who has worked long, hard and diligently for all appraisers, not just those in Florida. Through his association with NAR and it's appraisal section, as a member and as it's Chairman, Frank has done more for the appraisers in this country than most professional organizations have.

Also, try attending some of these board meetings. I am certified in Virginia and North Carolina. I have and do attend meetings of both. I have watched as the board in Virginia showed great patience and restraint with an individual that had I been the decision maker, would have revoked his license. They did not. He was suspended for 3 months and had to pay a fine. He was a complete idiot. That was even evident from what his own attorney said at the hearing. But, he was given a chance to redeem himself.

It is easy to bash Board/Commission, the Appraisal Foundation, USPAP, and anyone who is in a position of leadership, while at the same time sitting back and doing nothing to improve the plight of yourself and other appraisers. When was the last time any of you did anything to improve the circumstances of appraisers? Many of you won't even sign the petition that someone else took the time to write.

President John Kennedy said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" We he alive today he would probably be accused of being a conservative republican. However, his words inspired a generation. It was President Johnson who reversed that with his welfare state. We have become a nanny society. We expect to be cared for from cradele to the grave. if something doesn't go tight, blame someone else. If we need something, why just ask the government to give it to us. We have lost all sense of personal responsibility, ala, Big Mac. We want others to pay when we sit on our butts and get fat eating fast food. We destroy our lungs with ciggarettes and want others to pay for our stupidity.

Lord knows, it would be too much to ask for many appraisers to do something to help themselves.

Don

 

[JSmith43]

Here's some hope for you Jeff, but it is about 5 years into the future (my prediction).

Opt out of USPAP. That's right. The well meaning document that frightens us into thickening our reports with CYA & makes them incredibly unreadable to clients, which more & more want to draw 2 simple conclusions from reading the report. 1. Does the real estate support loan value now?....and...2. Is it likely to in the future? A portfolio lender would like to know those 2 opinions, pay for one report & not have to second guess 1/4" of CYA. 2nd mortgage lenders, especially those pesky credit unions, want such a product.

Clients that really want this type of information could care less about the finer points of USPAP. If a good real estate agent can reliably answer these questions, it would be fine. We should all check our egos, there are some very good real estate agents that have the pules of the market. And, if it is their only practical alternative, they will rely on the musings of R2D2 (one of the Star Wars robots).

So, down the line, some politician will open the door by proposing "opt out" legislation, and have the backing of financial institutions. Like the diminimis exceptions, it will start out small. And just like a mighty dam starts to fail with a small trickle, USPAP may fail. USPAP may morph into a simpler, more practical form...a set of 10 principles or commandments, with much less emphasis on due process & precedure. Yawnnnnnn!

Hey, I must have dozed off with my fingers on the keyboard. I had this vivid dream about USPAP reform. There was a booming voice from a burning bush with ten clear messages, "Thou shalt not make up comps"......na, can't be true!

 

[jeff samolinski]

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Many of the coments to date have been expected and are typical of the problem with our profession. We spend time on this forum whining and complaining but do nothing.

What many of you don't know is that I have recently had several long discusions with Frank on the Florida Board where I have offered some ideas to him. These ideas while they may not even be good ones have been met with the typical bureaucratic response such as the board can't do anything about it, go to the meetings before you attack them and just a bunch of reasons why this or that will not work. Not one idea has been offered by Frank for what we(I) could do to help him and his agenda for dealing with the problems. Therefore, all of you who want me so badly to go a meeting need to be more specific as to what you think could be accomplished by me going to a meeting without a specific agenda/reason for going. I am not interested in following their discussions about trainees and their supervision or whether and how distance learning is to be regulated. Nor am I concerned about their disciplinary hearings which i would bet consume most of their meeting time. I do not stand in awe at the good job their are doing regulating/punsihing appraisers while they do nothing about rest of the participants in the process.

I do not believe that the board cannot do anything about lenders abuses. Their is an interagency process available as part of the boards bi-annual review of their rules(they can discuss problems they have with other boards/professions). And no-one can tell me that there are not options available to the board for them to discuss the issue and pass it on the chain of command for consideration. It's just no-one on the baord appears to have the guts to step out. If any one of them tells me they will be pro-active on these issues I will be there to help but just me going to the board and asking for these things will not work and my head already hurts from beating it against the wall.

So I challenge all of you to work together through this forum to develop an agenda of issues that need to be addressed, especially ones that the board appears to have no control over. Let's define the problems specifically first then we can determine how to proceed.

My prediction: THE SILENCE WILL BE DEAFENING!1

ps:

Can someone tell me what is wrong with us proposing new rules that would be aimed at helping us remain ethical like clearly making it illegal for us to accept orders with any value indicated on them. In my mind it is not clear in USPAP that this is illegal when it says no assignment can be accepted based on a pre-determined value.

PSS> Hey Red i just moved to Ponce Inlet--Love the speed traps all over there-Feel like I moved to Germany in the 40's

PSSS: With regards to the Kennedy Post

Like all of my clients insuate to me: What have you done for me lately?

 

[Red Blumenstock]

Hi Jeff,

My take on your response is "my mind is already made up - don't confuse me with the facts". And don't knock Ponce Inlet - for such a small area, 35 mph seems sufficient to me. As a suggestion of what you can do, why not seek an office on the Town Council?
There are lots of things to squabble about there.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

OK, I'll add $.02 worth here.

All of us here know and understand the extreme frustrations we encounter when being an ETHICAL appraiser. It's 100 X worse when we KNOW that the 'skippys' down the street are getting the majority of the business and sending out untrained trainees to do the work and low fees - because they DO accept any and all pre-determined value orders and make them happen!!!
:twisted:

I think what Jeff is working toward, is what CAN the state boards do in writing opinions or whatever that are sent to the boards that regulate the loan officers and real estate agents. What CAN the state boards do in writing to the state legislators to help create stronger LAWS regarding exactly what a loan officer or agent can/cannot say or do regarding pressuring an appraiser.
Examples would be:
1) Making it ILLEGAL for any lender or loan officer to EVER put a value on the appraisal order.
2) Making it ILLEGAL for any licensed real estate agent to do anything other than send their ideas for comps to a loan officer to pass them along to the appraiser. Making it ILLEGAL for an agent to contact the appraiser involved in any of their deals.
3) Making it ILLEGAL for any licensed real estate agent to coerce any loan officer to use their 'pet' appraiser.

Those actions would actually have some teeth.

I really miss the printed newsletters that our Board used to mail to all licensees. The simple fact is that unless an appraiser is actively reading this forum and/or actively involved with attending their state board meetings, they have no clue!!! Those newbies are being trained by the previously untrained newbies that are now certified!!!!!!! They actually THINK/BELIEVE that what they are doing is appraising!!!

I would love to see some printed newsletters go out to all appraisers again. The newsletters need to specifically state what is considered illegal with some good examples.

USPAP is confusing. USPAP is already in place and I know that all appraisers 'should' abide by it. USPAP classes tell the appraisers what they should and should not do, but we all know how many 'sleep' through the USPAP classes and actually believe that USPAP will never harm them if they don't abide by it. One of the biggest problems is, they are right!

How do you actually catch a number hitter? We all know who they are in our own backyards. Do any of get the proof of it on any regular basis??? Getting our hands on one of their report is rare. Then, you feel like a 'tattle-tale' when you do file a complaint on the worst ones. Face it, any one of us, even the best of the best, could be taken down. No matter how hard you try, any one of your reports could have something in it that could be considered a USPAP violation. Open for interpretation.

I do like the 10 commandments style that actually could be written up making this much easier for all of us. (Was that Terrell that came up with that idea?)

We all need to get involved. I do believe that regularly attending your state Board's meetings is an excellent beginning. With attendance, they will know what we're looking for and we can make suggestions that could/would help all of us. Along with that, a PRINTED AND MAILED newsletter to all licensees needs to be done so that all will know. Those that aren't involved, at least here in FL, don't know when rules/laws are changed. I know that 'ignorance of the law' is not a good defense, but let us know when things change. Let the other regulartory agencies/board and our legislators what really is happening with suggestions to help all of us - the 'public' too!

Knocking or criticizing those that are already trying to help doesn't help. Getting involved, each and every one of us, will help. We CAN do something! The petition has been a wonderful beginning. Working on getting each and every state Board to write something asking other state boards and the legislators to make some changes with what they are doing/not doing is another step. I believe this could turn into a huge step for us.

There, I've posted some ideas regarding some specific actions that can/should be taken. More ideas and suggestions are welcome!!!

 

[JSmith43]

I do like the 10 commandments style that actually could be written up making this much easier for all of us. (Was that Terrell that came up with that idea?)


Uh, Pamela....I think it was Moses, or at least, he was the messenger.

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

Originally posted by jeff samolinski@Aug 2 2003, 09:47 AM
Can someone tell me what is wrong with us proposing new rules that would be aimed at helping us remain ethical like clearly making it illegal for us to accept orders with any value indicated on them. In my mind it is not clear in USPAP that this is illegal when it says no assignment can be accepted based on a pre-determined value.

For the benefit of those not in the Florida Group, here's the response provided to the questions posed:

jeff samolinski wrote:

No appraiser shall accept any appraisal assignment from a client that includes as part of the appraisal order any of the following: Owner's estimate of value- Requested value- PRELIMINARY VALUE ESTIMATE OR ANY OTHER INDICATED PRE-DETERMINED VALUE. Others can probably come up with better language but the idea is to make it so all appraisers cannot have any of this in their file. It is relatively unclear right now what is meant by no appraiser can accept any assignment based upon a pre-determined value. This issue needs to be clearly defined and I believe it can be done by the board. 

my response
Jeff,

Thanks for the example.

First - IMHO what is proposed is redundant and not necessary. Accepting an assignment which includes the reporting of a predetermined opinion and conclusion is prohibited under the Conduct Section of the Ethics Rule of the USPAP already. USPAP also requires the Appraiser to sign and certify a statement to that effect under Standards Rule 2 - 3. Compliance with the USPAP is required under Chapter 475 Part II.

Why restate the obvious? An owner's estimate of value, mortgage lenders guess of value, value needed for a loan, etc. is not necessarily an assignment condition. The statements made in the Ethics Rule and Certification seem pretty clear to me.

jeff samolinski wrote:

appraisers are required to report any owner's estimate of value or any other other value estimate provided as part of any assignment received and make comments regarding the appraiser's opinion of value compared to the owner's estimated value. 

my response
Do we really need more standards? Do you really want the FREAB to start telling you to put more stuff in your appraisal reports? Doesn't it make sense to try and accomplish things with as little regulation as possible? For one, I do not want the government to get any more involved than they are in what is required to be included in my appraisal reports.

Standards Rule 1 - 4, Standards Rule 1 - 5 and Standards Rule 2 - 2 (a)(ix), ((B](ix) and ((c](ix) would seem to cover what you want.

the inert mass