Hidden home appraisal middlemen have cost homebuyers $12 billion

[chad hampton]

I think some people on here assume that it’s a free and fair market. There’s quite a bit of nuances that come with manipulated markets, you just have to look past econ 101. When you have a handful of companies controlling probably 75% of the orders, The only way to level the playing field is with collective bargaining. And that’s hard to do since most appraisers believe that we’re not even allowed to discuss fees, which is completely untrue.

The concept is a simple one, big business will always try to put small business out of business. Everything makes sense once you realize that. so fight like your life depends on it, because it does. And when scumbag pieces of **** come here and tell you otherwise, call them out on it.

 

[alebrewer]

Everything makes sense once you realize that. so fight like your life depends on it, because it does.

Care to share what, exactly, you're fighting entails? Other than posting on AF, that is.

 

[chad hampton]

I’ve spent 15 years going to advocacy meetings for my state organizations writing countless letters that I assume were ignored, met with appraisal board members and staff, attended appraisal board meetings on my own dime for travel and hotels, and met with state legislators. Would’ve been nice to have had more than just me and a handful of others at all those events.

I trust you did your part like I did mine?

I’ve seen the dark side of this industry when they fly the unethical, immoral, stakeholders from out of state, to strong arm and threaten boards. And then the last five years it’s only gotten worse. In the last six months, ive phased almost entirely out of appraisal income, this is nothing but a part-time job for me now. Didn’t take much to find a six figure income while still being able to do this on the side. you guys enjoy working for 20 bucks an hour while your high 6 figure masters at the GSE‘s talk down to you and tell you how bad of a job you’re doing.


you should’ve seen these slick talking tech nerds at the appraisal convention last summer. None of them knew anything about valuing property, yet they all stood there and told you how they’re taking over your profession. It was the biggest scumbag convention I’ve ever seen.

 

[alebrewer]

I trust you did your part like I did mine?

I wasn't the one encouraging folks to 'fight like their lives depend on it'....

That said - throughout my career, I've either: (1) maintained a flat fee model when I was in the AMC world, or (2) required AMC's that were under my purview to maintain an agreed average margin. So yes - I feel I've done my part.

 

[chad hampton]

Well, thanks, you’ve certainly helped out a lot. Things are doing great. In the end, both of our efforts were worthless.

I’ve seen many organizations ask for stakeholder input and they post their letters online. The letters will be 100 to one in support of something but the organizations vote in the opposite direction. I’ve seen it one too many times. If it were me I would take a baseball bat and a flamethrower all these meetings. Truth be told, I can’t believe someone hasn’t done that yet.

Like that, dude that ran the dockworkers strike. He got more **** done in 24 hours than appraisers Have been able to get done in 15 years.

 

[alebrewer]

Well, thanks, you’ve certainly helped out a lot. Things are doing great. In the end, both of our efforts were worthless.

This is why you get no traction. You even crap on the folks willing to help. Go fight your war you crybaby.

 

[J Grant]

As much as I usually NEVER agree with you on much, I do here. I've said m any times before to the fighters over the AMC fees that mount the argument over 'consumerism', I wave the BS flag. If you were getting 75% or more of the AMC fee, you wouldn't be complaining about the consumer overpaying on AMC fees.

The better argument for appraisers to present is that it is not the $ the consumer is being screwed out of, it is the fact that by not seeing a disclosure how using an AMC affects the choice of which appraiser gets their assignment, the consumer is being misled. In addition, because fo that, the consumer can be deprived the service of a more experienced or copente appraiser because of the appraiser fee shopping an order.

When lenders order without an AMC, they do not need to fee shop regular work because all their appraisers in a panel ( typically) are paid the same C and R fee in a region.

 

[bluechip]

As much as I usually NEVER agree with you on much, I do here. I've said m any times before to the fighters over the AMC fees that mount the argument over 'consumerism', I wave the BS flag. If you were getting 75% or more of the AMC fee, you wouldn't be complaining about the consumer overpaying on AMC fees.

We would be complaining because the consumer is getting screwed. The appraisers are getting screwed. The rich get richer. If we were unified we could have a massive class action lawsuit against all AMCs and recoup our substantial losses.

And Josh Tucker and ARCC (or whatever the acronym is) has GONE NO WHERE. Nor is it likely to. I'm still trying to wrap my head around any bank appraisal manager still having a job with the whole ARCC thing, but that's just me.

What have you done for the industry? When is the last time you put you neck out there for all appraisers? When have you exposed the gouging of the consumer? Met with CFPB, senators, congressman, and Chopra? You haven't. ARCC has. ARCC stands for Appraisal Regulation Compliance Council. It is a great group of like minded individuals who are fighting for the consumer and the profession.

https://appraisersforum.com/forums/threads/appraisal-regulation-compliance-council.238567/​

 

[J Grant]

To GH's point, for the lender its all about procuring a service that fits their needs, and if they can procure that service for $200, then why not? That said, if I'm on the lender's payroll, and I have third party oversight over AMC's, I'd be VERY concerned that the appraiser garnered $200 out of a $1k payment for the appraisal. To J's point - the consumer is being screwed, and you'd think the lender would have a responsibility to ensure that doesn't happen.

Nope. The lender was not procuring the appraiser service for $200 when the lender uses an AMC.

The lender collects the C and R appraisal fee from the borrower, $500 for example, and sends it as a pass-through payment to the AMC
The AMC then might find an appraiser to do it for $200

If you are alleging that the lender collects $500 from a borrower and signs it direct at $200, that is illegal (for a lender to fee split with itself ) .
Only a third party can fee split under the HUD - which is the reason that a bank or lender sometimes forms a legally separate AMC division under a corporate umbrella and then operates it on a cost plus fee split basis.

 

[alebrewer]

Nope. The lender was not procuring the appraiser service for $200 when the lender uses an AMC.

The lender collects the C and R appraisal fee from the borrower, $500 for example, and sends it as a pass-through payment to the AMC
The AMC then might find an appraiser to do it for $200

If you are alleging that the lender collects $500 from a borrower and signs it direct at $200, that is illegal (for a lender to fee split with itself ) .
Only a third party can fee split under the HUD - which is the reason that a bank or lender sometimes forms a legally separate AMC division under a corporate umbrella and then operates it on a cost plus fee split basis.

I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO idea what you're talking about.