Historic houses

[Liz South]

Having also done a number of these both simply older homes (over 150+ years) and historic homes (older homes where something historic happened or someone impt lived) another issue to deal with is the historic value, (if any) tax credits (if any) restrictions on use and renovation (if any). Here in VA. our state historic landmarks commission is a great source of info on styles, construction materials, typical issues and have found that often can get one of the state historians to go out with me to inspect the property which gives great info on architecture, history, etc which need at minimum to be supporting docs in your file, prefereably in a narrative report. If it has a historic state placque on it, there probably is a file on the dwelling in your state historic landmarks commission (get that file, read & copy it)

Again, don't sweat the guidelines, deal with the idea that a typical buyer is not a typical home buyer but one who wants to preserve our past. A good book, that I keep in my library is "A Field Guide to American Houses" by Virginia & Lee McAlester which should be in your library if you are going to try to do anything that is at all older as you need to be able to describe windows, trims, transoms, porches and other items on the dwelling rather than simply calling it a colonial, ranch, saltbox etc. Different styles of dwellings reflect different periods of history.

Another source of data is the National Trust for Historic Preservation in Washington D.C.

Also be VERY SPECIFIC about construction materials etc. Look for ghosts (places where porches may have been removed, fireplaces bricked in or other items which could have changed the style of the dwelling).

Remember, that uses of rooms may have changed over time such as whether bedrooms have closets or not. Plan to spend better part of a day doing the field part of the research. Don't rush your inspection.

Liz S.

 

[Kate]

People that specialize in appraising landmark properties charge a small fortune for these jobs.

I know an absolutely amazing appraiser who is from TX. She now lives up here and appraises in Mass. I met her when she gave a speech at a seminar I went to. She has appraised grave yards, haunted mansions and just about anything that no one else wants to appraise.

I asked her how she got into that. She said she was never afraid of figuring things out and was the only one that took the really hard ones b/c she really likes a challenges. She said that as long as you fully explain what and why you did what you did and it is logical. So now she is known for doing the hard ones.

I had the opportunity to work with her one time on a job she sent to my first mentor. Coincidentally, the house had a historic marker out front. I learned so much on that assignment. And I took a lot from her.

I want to be just like her when I grow up. I want to take on the hard ones and be known for taking on the hard ones. She is NEVER slow. She always has business b/c everyone sends stuff they don't want to do and don't know how to charge for her way.

Allen, don't be afraid of it. I say go for it. Obviously make sure you are USPAP compliant and that your license is enough to do this. But I wouldn't be afraid of it.

 

[Alan Magill]

I appreciate the feedback. I have already contacted the historic district to schedule a meeting with one of their reps. A few of the homes have sold, but not through the MLS. Texas is a non disclosure state, so I have to go knocking on doors. No biggy. I am going to try to find somebody Friday that has experience before going to much further. I don't know if I will find anybody. I guess it will be worth it for the experience, if I have to do it.

 

[hastalavista]

Liz S. zeroed in on a key point (IMO): What gives the subject its "historic" significance, and how does that translate into a value influence?

It's not that difficult to get a house on a registry; if it meets some minimum age criteria, almost any home can qualify.

Some people buy a historic home and then eliminate any historic premium by modernizing it.

Some people buy a modernized older home, spend a small fortune restoring it, and then recapture some of its historic premium.

Homes that have the original detail and appeal may or may not go for a premium vs. those that have been modernized: the market can be fickle, and people's tastes change.

If there are few "similar" type homes in the immediate area, be careful of where you go to find outside comps. The saying "there's strength in numbers" can be modified to "there may be a lot of value in homogeneity"; in other words, similar type homes from an area where there is a neighborhood of those types of homes may sell for a premium vs. those areas where there is a scarcity of such homes; in the homogeneous neighborhood, your are purchasing the historic house & the historic neighborhood.

There are so many unique considerations that could have a significant influence on value that an assignment like this could take much longer than one might think (especially if its the first time!). Seems it may take a week or two just to eliminate what you don't have in terms of historic significance before you can concentrate on what you do have.

I salute you, Alan (and I mean that sincerely!) for taking on an assignment like this- no doubt at the start, it sounds like you need to partner with someone experienced in such work, but it will be a great learning experience.
It may be a big money looser in terms of fee received vs. work effort required, but if there is a market in your area for this type of work, why not become the expert? You can make up for the lost profit on this assignment on the next job- because for the next job, your fee can reflect the work required and your expertise!

Good luck!!!

 

[Restrain]

I do know of at least one with a historical marker that has sold in Denton. The problem is that you run into "historical commissions" so that this "old house" can become a money pit. An old home is one thing, one that has restrictions is something else. Look in McKinney and Denton for your sales. Similar marketability, similar age of homes, and there's an active market for such properties.

 

[Renee Healion]

there's only 24 of them, I have to find out...

I keep going back to your characterization of the house as a "monument". Sometimes properties are historically interesting not just for their architectural style but for their place in history. If something historically significant is connected to the subject you have yet another factor to consider.

If it is architecturally significant, has it been altered in a way that affects its authenticity? Has it been restored; if so, how carefully? Some of the competency comes from knowing your antiques, or even local history.

Buyers of antique/ historic properties do not behave like a typical buyer as we think of them. To me, many in this group of buyers act more like collectors than like real estate buyers, at least here. They always wanted a 1750 center chimney, or a house on quaint New England green. They are a different kind of bird. the could pick any other kind of antique but they happen to want one with fireplaces.

And so, you have to interview much more than usual. There are brokerages that specialize in distinctive properties in most markets. It takes a certain informed type of agent to know the market and to be able to work with these buyers. Find them. Look for Sotheby's, ask around who does this work. I knew one agent who did most of a market for years. She was chronically late so I would go on time to her office and get great info from her long-suffering secretary while we waited and waited. I would talk to the agent about properties, not just the one at hand but any and all. She would show me one property and then call the neighbors' caretakers and get me into their houses--even though they were not on the market! I always took the tours because the information has a longer shelf life. Someday they would sell and I would have info that even made the assessor envious (they never got in). So prepare to ask the questions of these agents who really are specialists. There really is not another source as good.

National Trust is good. Historical Societies. Amazing what is on the web from those sources. Local historians are very good. Here they are volunteers who are a wealth of info.

Need more than a week. Charge more. Good luck.

 

[Bearslide]

Alan: Don't be afraid of this assignment - and as others have said, forget the typical underwriting guidelines.

I do appraisals in Gettysburg and a number of them are historic civil war or pre-civil war homes. The key is finding out everything you can about the house and knocking on doors is a great way to do it (and make sure you give them your card - you would be surprised what may come from that). Avail yourself of the public library, zoning office, anywhere that might have info on this house or similar homes. Talk to people who have bought them, as well as RE agents who have sold them and find out buyer motivation. You will find that a picture emerges. Yopu may also find private sales this way. Without fail, the historic homes in Gettysburg have been bought, maintained and restored by Civil War buffs - and most of them are also Civil War Re-enactors. This is a totally different segment of the market than for 50+ year old homes, 25+ year old homes and new construction in the same town.

I start my reports by defining the market (and I do enough of them that I created a template) and explaining the area - complete with neighborhood and area photos of points of interest and maps showing points of interest.

You would think that with Gettysburg being one of the major Civil War battlesites that there would be a lot of Civil War era homes - there aren't. Many were lost during the war, many after to neglect and many are occupied by businesses (Civil War Museums, art galleries, etc). Plus - people wait years to get their hands on one, and when they do, they are not likely to sell. I detail all this in my reports, because the lender is going to have to understand why I went 10 miles and 3-4-5 years for suitable sales, not to mention high dollar and percentage adjustments. I make the point that on a national scale, these may be unique properties, but for the locale, they are not - they are just very, very limited. My addenda on these reports runs several pages, with several pages of additional photos, other than of the subject and comps.

These are complex assignments, but they are also challenging - and I charge accordingly. I have NEVER had one kicked back for stips, despite the failure to meet underwriting "guidelines". These homes have value and it is up to you to show that value and how you reached your conclusions. Write them a novel and paint them a picture.

Good luck - and enjoy the assignment - you may find once you dig into it that it is fun!

 

[Alan Magill]

I do know of at least one with a historical marker that has sold in Denton. The problem is that you run into "historical commissions" so that this "old house" can become a money pit. An old home is one thing, one that has restrictions is something else. Look in McKinney and Denton for your sales. Similar marketability, similar age of homes, and there's an active market for such properties.

Was the house in the Oak/Hickory district? I got my real estate degree at UNT under Dr. Randall Guttery and John Bain. I am pretty familiar with that area. I would appreciate the address if you could let me know. The architecture seems more revered by the district in Denton. They are generally much larger and more restored than updated. They are also more centralized giving the neighborhood a higher value. Mine is one of only 24 on 6 different streets.

Have you ever done an appraisal on one like this?

I haven't found anything in McKinney yet, but I am going to research their historical society. Rockwall, Dallas and Fort Worth might be better since they have a larger number of historical districts, but that doesn't mean the were historical monuments. I have not found a historical society that is broad enough to narrow down my search. Right now I am just searching for local historical districts with the hope that they have homes that are monuments.


From what I have read, this house is more of a challenge because it is not a home that has been restored, but rather updated on the interior. Most homes that are monuments have been restored (from what I have seen), a much more costly and visually appealing look.

On a side note, have you seen the plans to expand 35-E from George bush to Teasley? I was watching a council meeting last month and could hardly believe it. 16 Lanes of traffic. WOW

Thanks again for any help.

 

[Alan Magill]

I still have not accepted the assignment. They are going to be surprised by my fee. lol

http://www.ci.grapevine.tx.us/depts/devservices/Designguide/2.4 Individual Landmarks.pdf

The address is 405 Smith, the last one.

It is not listed here.

http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com

I am beginning to embrace the challenge of this assignment, but if I find a more qualified suitor I will pass it on and offer any help free of charge. I plan on interviewing someone from each historical society for the comps that I use. That will probably make this a 2 or 3 week project. I am not that busy with appraisal work, but I do have a few closings in the next few weeks, as I am also a broker. Got to make the ends meet. I try not to do mortgage deals anymore. The ones I do deal with (getting smaller by the day) have all been forewarned about my policies.

I guess it is obvious that I am intrigued by the assignment based on the time of this post. I guess I better get some sleep.

Thanks in advance for any advice if I go forward with it.

 

[Restrain]

If you went to UNT, you'll know the home. It's the large white colonial on Oak, just off the campus, used to be a museum. Interesting thing is that being historical didn't seem to affect the sale price vs. the other Victorians in the area.

The key is going to prove either a premium or discount because of the historical nature. This sale should give you a comparison. All you need is one paired sale to prove if there is an effect. Otherwise, you can use older homes and run a standard comparison.