Home of a Hoarder

[Abester]

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Is personal property a real estate issue?

Simply amazing.

You got that right.

 

[tjcou812]

Is personal property a real estate issue?

It becomes an safety issue when they put other people in harms way. When you can't go into a room or walk through the hallways without moving or hopping over stuff/clutter it becomes a safety issue. Wether its an emergency or they have company over they are putting other people and themselves at risk. I'm not arguing that its an legal issue but it could lead up to one. Im sure FHA or even a conventional mortgage would want to do a loan when the house/homeowner puts other people at risk. Many have their own thoughts throughout this thread but I for one do not want to be sued by the bank or homeowner because we did not state it in the report. If the house goes up in flames and the fire department could not gain access to the interior of the house because of the clutter/garbage you better hope they have h/o insurance because if they don't guess who they are going to come after the appraiser. We all know that in todays world that people don't want to take the responsability for themselves and are looking to blame others.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

It becomes an safety issue when they put other people in harms way. When you can't go into a room or walk through the hallways without moving or hopping over stuff/clutter it becomes a safety issue. Wether its an emergency or they have company over they are putting other people and themselves at risk. I'm not arguing that its an legal issue but it could lead up to one. Im sure FHA or even a conventional mortgage would want to do a loan when the house/homeowner puts other people at risk. Many have their own thoughts throughout this thread but I for one do not want to be sued by the bank or homeowner because we did not state it in the report. If the house goes up in flames and the fire department could not gain access to the interior of the house because of the clutter/garbage you better hope they have h/o insurance because if they don't guess who they are going to come after the appraiser. We all know that in todays world that people don't want to take the responsability for themselves and are looking to blame others.

I know of a "hoarder" that never ever has anyone to their home. They place theirselves at risk. Its not my job to police them. I describe what I saw, I send them pictures, I opine a value based upon the extraordinary assumption the condition of the house underlying the personal property is the same as that which I can see, I let the lender make a decision.
The decision is not mine and I make that clear in my report.
Insurance with cover the lenders loss in case of fire, or it should, again that is not my problem or issue.
Im an appraiser, not personal property police.

 

[Abester]

If I were a homeowner I would sue an appraiser that claimed personal property were a safety issue. A good attorney would have a great three hours of fun with that. There is no limit to which personal property can be used to inflict harm. That fact does not make it a valuation issue nor an issue requiring outside control. Read your constitution. It trumps appraiser...

 

[tjcou812]

For all you nay sayers, I just got off the phone with FHA/HUD. They say it is a safety issue when it impedes a homeowner or others to gain access to the interior of the dwelling wether it be garbage/clutter/personal property. They told me that this includes all exterior, interior entrances(bedrooms, bathrooms etc), there must be clear access to all rooms via the hallways. They also said it becomes a major issue when all emergency personal cannot gain access to the interior rooms when responding to a call to the home.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

For all you nay sayers, I just got off the phone with FHA/HUD. They say it is a safety issue when it impedes a homeowner or others to gain access to the interior of the dwelling wether it be garbage/clutter/personal property. They told me that this includes all exterior, interior entrances(bedrooms, bathrooms etc), there must be clear access to all rooms via the hallways. They also said it becomes a major issue when all emergency personal cannot gain access to the interior rooms when responding to a call to the home.

That is their decision ... not mine. I report what I see and they make a decision whether it meets their levels of lacking personal safety. I will not make the call ... HUD must. Those are my business rules and I think them prudent for all appraisers to follow. Report what you see and let the lender make their determinations.

 

[Kevin Mc]

I have dealt with many over the years. Only once did I see it as a serious safety issue (oil burner room was packed chest high with old clothes). I have seen some pretty nasty and unbelievable stuff. I just report it. Let the UW make the call If you see something as an immediate safety issue, report it.

 

[Abester]

They say it is a safety issue

Next thing you know they'll say you shouldn't have any fried foods or ice cream because you may have a heart attack, not be able to turn on the furnace and cause the pipes to freeze and burst. If the hoarder could move everything into a storage bin for the 15 minutes the appraiser was inside, the appraised value will be some number. That number does not change the instance the hoarder moves all their stuff back into the house. And I don't believe it's the government's job to stick their nose into one more thing. Further, My grandfather's brother's wife was a hoarder. They did not entertain at their home, but no one knew the level to which she hoarded things until after her husband died. She lived in the house for 50 years without her being in an "unsafe" piece of real estate.

when it impedes a homeowner or others to gain access to the interior of the dwelling wether it be garbage/clutter/personal property

And just to demonstrate how ridiculous this is, here are a few things that may tend to impeded the access of others:

12 cats that might scratch the appraiser;

2 pit bulls that might get that smell of blood and take a bite out of the appraiser;

a Christmas tree in front of the patio door so the poor appraiser has to go around to the front door;

a kid's erector set blocking the door to the Jack ' n ' Jill bath (makes it more likely for the poor kid to have an accident trying to get in from the other side;

a jar full of marbles left conveniently scattered so the appraiser slips and falls but at least the appraiser can dream of how this must be what the FHA book was talking about;

a teenager party - that is a safety issue;

just about anything else someone with too much time on their hands can think up instead of actually working.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Some of you really need to figure this all out.

<.....snip......> I could not observe half of the interior of the house due to piles of junk being stacked floor 6 ft. high in most of the rooms. This is an FHA appraisal and <...... snip........>

I know that simple disclaimer that parts of the house were not inspectable won’t fly with the FHA. <....... snip.......>

USPAP

Standards Rule 1-1 (a)

Standards Rule 1-2 (f) Specifically the "Comment."

After reading the posts in this thread, I am very sure a bunch of appraisers have failed to understand the words "credible" and "reasonable basis" as those words were used in USPAP. Especially, as those words should have been considered regarding their relationship back against the Scope of Work Rule.

In the context of the intended use for this assignment (See SOW Rule), FHA ........ the EA everyone has been stating to use is neither credible nor does it have a reasonable basis specifically due to the intended use.

FHA has inspection standards that are REQUIRED..... When those standards cannot be met to such a drastic degree it means the assignment has to be placed on hold, or canceled, until they can be met. Proceeding using EA's that are not credible for the intended use is a blatent USPAP violation.

Proceeding with an EA, or failing to declare an EA when an appraiser is in reality using one or more of them anyway, is not an option. The option here is to get the client to understand that an FHA intended use cannot be completed due to FHA inspection requirements. Either cancel the assignment or find a new loan program that allows an intended use with a SOW that does not demand the inspection requirements of FHA. We cannot proceed when there is such a blatent disconnect between the situation, the intended use, and the sections of USPAP that require credible results.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

USPAP

Standards Rule 1-1 (a)

Standards Rule 1-2 (f) Specifically the "Comment."

After reading the posts in this thread, I am very sure a bunch of appraisers have failed to understand the words "credible" and "reasonable basis" as those words were used in USPAP. Especially, as those words should have been considered regarding their relationship back against the Scope of Work Rule.

In the context of the intended use for this assignment (See SOW Rule), FHA ........ the EA everyone has been stating to use is neither credible nor does it have a reasonable basis specifically due to the intended use.

FHA has inspection standards that are REQUIRED..... When those standards cannot be met to such a drastic degree it means the assignment has to be placed on hold, or canceled, until they can be met. Proceeding using EA's that are not credible for the intended use is a blatent USPAP violation.

Proceeding with an EA, or failing to declare an EA when an appraiser is in reality using one or more of them anyway, is not an option. The option here is to get the client to understand that an FHA intended use cannot be completed due to FHA inspection requirements. Either cancel the assignment or find a new loan program that allows an intended use with a SOW that does not demand the inspection requirements of FHA. We cannot proceed when there is such a blatent disconnect between the situation, the intended use, and the sections of USPAP that require credible results.

Webbed .. come on ... you mean to tell me that I cant produce a credible report using Extraordinary Assumptions, FHA aside????
I dont know what inspection standards cannot be met per FHA guidelines, either I missed them or they were never disclosed in the OP.