How Much Does A Appraiser Trainee Should Be Getting Paid?

[timd354]

ChasingRabbits. I don't believe any court in America would have held in favor of a non compete contract that restrictive. But glad you were able to get past that.

Employment non-compete contracts are typically a matter of state law and the enforceability of such contracts varies greatly between states. I am from the DC area and remember that non-compete employment contracts are much less likely to be enforced in Virginia than they are by the Maryland courts.

 

[EddieB]

Yes Tim, states vary, but in your opinion, would this non compete clause stand up?

 

[timd354]

Yes Tim, states vary, but in your opinion, would this non compete clause stand up?

I have no idea how the NC courts look at non-compete clauses...but the courts in many states would probably hold that that particular one is not reasonable and would probably choose not to enforce it. However, that does not mean that the employee would not incur some huge legal fees defending a lawsuit filed by his former employer to try to enforce it.

 

[Joe Flacco]

I got my trainee license about a year ago, and I have been working under a supervisor for around that time too. We have been doing the inspections together, however, I do all the work before and afterwards.

How much should I be getting paid for each assignment I complete?

I work on comp checks, home inspection, data gathering, and type reports.

From each assignment I get paid from $175-$250, depending on fee. I am in SoCal.

Is this fair?

It sounds like a pretty good deal to me. It is not easy to make those numbers work when the supervisor has to inspect the property with you.

 

[ChasingRabbits]

I ran that contract by a couple of friends who are attorneys to get their take on it. Both said it was unenforceable. As I understand it, the broader the scope of a non-compete agreement, the less likely it is to be enforceable. What I was told was that a non-compete can't stop someone from reasonably plying their trade. It can't stop someone from working in an entire field (this particular contract even stated that I couldn't work in any capacity for any client we did business with). It can't cause undue hardship that would require relocation in order to work. It can't be unreasonable in length of time. If, for example, I had been presented with one that prohibited conducting appraisals within the same county for 6-12 months following separation, that may be enforceable, but this agreement basically said I couldn't appraise anything in North Carolina from the Virginia to South Carolina state lines over around a 30-county area...basically a 2.5-3 hour drive in any direction within the state.

I understand what they were trying to do...the intention was to make it nearly impossible for any trainee that was under their supervision to continue in the industry if they parted ways with the company. Like I mentioned, had it not been for that contract being thrust on me, I would likely not have looked for another opportunity and would not be in the better position I am now in. When I came on board with that supervisor, it was with a verbal agreement that I would do my best work for them, they would try to keep me busy and when I obtained my certification, they hoped that we could work out an agreement that would benefit both of us for me to continue working with them. That changed when they had another trainee leave and go to work for a competitor. They wrote and presented me and other trainees with a contract as a reaction to that trainee's departure.

I speculate about what the outcome would have been if I had signed that original agreement, was subsequently let go for lack of work, and had then filed an unemployment claim. I was paid as an independent contractor...but a non-compete with those terms, tied to training and a supervisor, combined with working extended hours partially tied to set business hours scheduled by the employer. I'm pretty certain that all of those factors add-up to indicate that, though I may have been paid as an independent contractor, I was actually an employee and should have been subject to withholding and covered by labor law. That's a whole different can of worms.

 

[ChasingRabbits]

I have no idea how the NC courts look at non-compete clauses...but the courts in many states would probably hold that that particular one is not reasonable and would probably choose not to enforce it. However, that does not mean that the employee would not incur some huge legal fees defending a lawsuit filed by his former employer to try to enforce it.

You are entirely correct about the legal fees...enforcement of the non-compete could ultimately boil down to either who has deeper pockets or is more tenacious. Knowing that it was likely unenforceable, the bigger issue for me was an ethical one. I could not in good conscience sign an agreement that I could not abide.

 

[timd354]

You are entirely correct about the legal fees...enforcement of the non-compete could ultimately boil down to either who has deeper pockets or is more tenacious. Knowing that it was likely unenforceable, the bigger issue for me was an ethical one. I could not in good conscience sign an agreement that I could not abide.

I don't think that there is any question that you made the right decision when you chose not to sign it....best of luck in finding someone else to work for who is more reasonable.

 

[ChasingRabbits]

ChasingRabbits must be in a city. In my rural area if you get 4 residential completed in a week you are lucky and 3 for an AMC. That is why I prefer estate, other and general purpose work with a wide gamut of types up to my license limit and some with co-appraisers. When I was a trainee the most I finished was 4 in a day or cookie cutters in the same subdivision of a 60,000 pop city. Three neighboring Counties in my area total less than 60,000 population.

The office I worked for covered nearly 30 counties stretching over the whole central part of North Carolina from the Virginia to South Carolina state lines. Most of the counties were rural, but we had four major metro areas within that region (Charlotte, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Raleigh) which supplied quite a bit of the orders. We were also near the junction of the primary North-South and East-West Interstate corridors for the state (I-40 and I-85) which made it possible to pick up lots of AMC new construction orders from developments sprouting up along these routes. It was not unusual to travel 2-300 miles or more completing inspections and driving comps.

 

[ChasingRabbits]

I don't think that there is any question that you made the right decision when you chose not to sign it....best of luck in finding someone else to work for who is more reasonable.

The day I was presented with it I started hammering the phones, email, linked-in, facebook...everywhere...making connections with commercial appraisal offices. My goal was to make personal contact with as many general appraisal office owners as I could to get them on the phone or sitting down in person. I didn't want to waste any of their time, so my conversations were directly to the point...

I'm a trainee with limited, but high-volume residential experience.
I want to transition from pursuing a residential certification to pursuing a general certification.
What advice can you offer someone in my position?
Do you have any opportunities for a trainee in your firm?
Do you know any other general appraisers who could offer some further advice or who might be looking for a trainee?

and I always ended with...

Can I send you a copy of my resume to keep on file in case something opens up at your firm?

Any time I sent my resume out, I did it digitally and through regular mail...Regular mail got a thank you letter attached and digital copies included permission and encouragement to forward my resume to anyone they knew of that might be looking for a trainee.

Within a week, I had around a dozen phone interviews, generated between 2-3 dozen contacts and had one half-hour face-to-face interview over coffee that ended with an immediate offer.

I even signed a non-compete when I came on-board with my new employer. But it was much more equitable and the fee structure was such that it would take serious contemplation to decide whether the potential for greater income from going solo in the future would outweigh the hassles of managing the business end. That is where a good contract should sit...right in the middle of that balance between fee-split compensation and office management headache. Tickled to death to be where I am right now.

 

[timd354]

The day I was presented with it I started hammering the phones, email, linked-in, facebook...everywhere...making connections with commercial appraisal offices. My goal was to make personal contact with as many general appraisal office owners as I could to get them on the phone or sitting down in person. I didn't want to waste any of their time, so my conversations were directly to the point...

I'm a trainee with limited, but high-volume residential experience.
I want to transition from pursuing a residential certification to pursuing a general certification.
What advice can you offer someone in my position?
Do you have any opportunities for a trainee in your firm?
Do you know any other general appraisers who could offer some further advice or who might be looking for a trainee?

and I always ended with...

Can I send you a copy of my resume to keep on file in case something opens up at your firm?

Any time I sent my resume out, I did it digitally and through regular mail...Regular mail got a thank you letter attached and digital copies included permission and encouragement to forward my resume to anyone they knew of that might be looking for a trainee.

Within a week, I had around a dozen phone interviews, generated between 2-3 dozen contacts and had one half-hour face-to-face interview over coffee that ended with an immediate offer.

I even signed a non-compete when I came on-board with my new employer. But it was much more equitable and the fee structure was such that it would take serious contemplation to decide whether the potential for greater income from going solo in the future would outweigh the hassles of managing the business end. That is where a good contract should sit...right in the middle of that balance between fee-split compensation and office management headache. Tickled to death to be where I am right now.

Great job....you went out there and you created an opportunity for yourself through hard work and persistence. Best of luck to you in your new position!