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HUD 203k Rehabilitation appraisal?

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Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Ben:
Appraisers who specialized in "Plan & Review" and a roster of Appraisers who did just the related Appraisal. The first group had to show some background in spec writing.

The "Consultant position was the one I had been encouraged to investigat efurther... and was just getting involved in when the break-up.... errrr Consolidation of HUD occurred, and apparently ended the program in this geographic area.

I had tentative approval to 'be one' due to a heavy background in SBA Disaster loan program experience, which involved pre/post disaster spec writing combined with pre/post 'appraisal' of the property.

I was just wondering if anyone has a contact for that end of the program or is it now defunct entirely?
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
Lee Ann

I think you would have to contact your local HOC and be placed on the waiting list for FHA inspectors-yep, I think it's still a closed panel just like the VA appraisal panel. But give them a call and find out. Let us know what they say (Sorry, but the panel is closed at the present time, is my guess)

All you have to do is wait for some one to die/retire and you'll get an opportunity to be considered-it's a great way to do business-just like VA. I heard that FHA was going to start testing 203k inspectors but I can't remember where I read it. Maybe some will flunk-out and now's the time to apply.

The fees are great-the last one I did, the guy got $650 for producing a glorified VC Sheet with line item costs. There's evidently a computerized 203K program that spits out all the info needed to make FHA happy.

Go for it.

Ben
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Ben:

I will/would happily except when I called all I got was "DUHHH? What's that? "

May try my secret number at the HOC to an old engineering pal: he should know the skinny.

Thanks though!

I suspect that some of the good ol boys round here DID drop dead! :lol: :lol:

(sorry :oops: May the powers that be rest their good ol boy souls)
 

Rlong

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Colorado
In answer to Brandon "how much to charge?" I don't really know as I am just getting into this myself, but it did not seem to onerous, depending on the quality of the "consultants" plans and specs. And no you don't have to be on a special 203k APPRAISERS list.

In answer to Lee Anns ?? about contacts, and as additional info about being a consultant for others, I will give you my understanding and post some links at the bottom, I think there are a number of contacts in these documents.

They have "special training" for the consultants that writes the specs etc. for the 203(k) rehab program. After completion and submiting an "application package" that includes specialized experience, education, licensing etc.. Then one is placed on the FHA 203(k) Consultant Roster. There are a number of approved education providers. Several will do it via home study IF your qualified, have GC or Architectural background etc. I have all these guys info if someone wants it. Some of these classes do tend to sound kinda lame.

An approved "appraiser" must only be on the FHA approved list, with no "other" designation. I think the feeling is the appraiser is only suppose to engage if they are competent. (no comment from me here.) The appraiser cannot be the Consultant!! and vias versa. I geuss that makes sense.

I don't feel like the goal is to "overimprove" the property. The goal is to upgrade outdated housing stock, although you are correct they will do loan amounts up to 110%, but there are additional guidelines if the loan goes to that limit.

I am NO expert, however I was asked to get involved with this as I have a close friend that is going to be doing both 203(k) and Conventional rehab lending for Wells Fargo in my area. As I have 15 years experience as a GC they asked me to look into it. I literally have a ream or two of paper on it (much of which is Wells Fargo BS) I have posted several links below. I obviously had visions of getting TWO fees, one as the consultant and one as the appraiser, but those dreams have been dashed.

However my understanding is that you can charge $75 -$100 for draw inspections as work is billed and for the final inspection, and that EITHER the consultant or the appraiser can do that. Here are some links,

http://www.HUD.gov/progdesc/203k--df.cfm
http://www.HUD.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/203k/203kmenu.cfm
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
Brandon,

I did forget one thing about FHA 203k's in my posts.

This is the only FHA program that requires smoke detectors to be installed adjacent to the bedrooms. Make sure the consultant's work write up has them on the list if they were not present in the property when you inspected it. Even if they were present, I would still require the 203k consultant to issue a statement that the existing ones meet FHA guidelines/requirements. I don't know whether FHA requires battery or hardwired units-that's a job for the consultant.

Ben
 

liznindy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Indiana
How does 203b differ from 203k?

I read in the handbook that a minimum of $5,000 must be used in part for renovation and/or repair.....so is the 203b for properties which need repairs <$5000?


Also noted inspection reports are to be provided to the borrower....are these given to the appraiser as well?
 

bradellis

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Hi folks,

1. You do not need any sort of special certification to do the appraisal on a 203K deal. You do it subject to the repairs and you MUST have the 203K consultant's work up. However, you must be competent to do this work. It is just like any other sort of construction appraisal.

2. To become a 203K consultant, you DO need special certification status and it has nothing to do with being an appraiser. Many contractors have it.

Note: Investors cannot use the 203K. It has been limited to owner occupancy for some time now due to the enormous fraud that occured.

As to FHA reviews, well there are some being contracted for right now, I have not seen the new form. I know Brad Pack is considering bidding on one in SoCal. HUD will get lucky in some areas to get folks like Brad Pack. Many (or perhaps most) others will be totally incompetent.

In SoCal, Brad is lucky since there are actually a couple of competent people in the Santa Ana HOC. I will NOT make that same assumption about any other HOC. I have dealt with them all.

My experience with HUD is that their ranks are rife with incompetents. I think that, if you want to get promoted to a high level in HUD, you must first have a frontal lobotomy.

Frankly, I am giving serious consideration to starting a special service for FHA appraisers who are wrongly accused by HUD- via an incompetent reviewer- to defend them.

Brad Ellis, IFA,RAA
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
Brad:

Need for protection/oversight for wrongly accused FHA? In our area there IS no penalty (or foul) for poor quality work!

I have generally exceeded HUD's expectations in their review process... You know how the gov't likes to call everything 'average? I have gotten stellar reviews (near all 4's and 5's) in the past.

However on one occasion we got back that had a (gasp) 2! 8O

So wanting to improve our performance I caled to find out what the 2 referenced, because the 'copy to appraiser said 'see attached'. After no less than 6 weeks of calls and letters I became convinced that that piece of paper had disappeared, and would NEVER be made available to us.

Now THAT is a great system: tell someone they are bad/wrong on a feedback form, but don't let em know why! :evil:

I applaud anyone who attempts competent review of HUD appraisals. We could SURE use someoversight in this area, based on some of the prexisting conditions I am seeing in recent HUD REO's~ :twisted:
 

bradellis

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
LeeAnn,

Whatever they come up with will undoubtedly have flaws. Your case of the getting the "2" is a good example. Then they can never tell you why, but I will tell you why.

The reviewer they used just screwed up and when they realized it, they conveniently lost the paper. But, I'll bet the "2" stayed on your record nonetheless.

One of my AQA reviewers in IL got a "1" on one of his reports. Happened just as the AQA program was getting underway. He is an FHA instructor- that's right, he taught others how to do FHA work properly.

Turns out that reviewer marked him low for not using a comp on the same street. Problem was, it was not CLOSED. He knew about it. In his rebuttal, he gridded it out using the same adjustments he had used for his first 3. Indicated value from this comp was precisely the opinion he had arrived at from the other 3.

I'm guessing it is gonna be more of the same from Mad Mel.

Brad
 

Ben Vukicevich SRA

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Jersey
Hey Brad,

Don't be so serious. This is HUD we're talking about, right? :lol: :lol: You know from past experience with HUD reviews they never change anything. :roll:

In the old days in the Phila HUD office you had to respond to every review of under a 5. I used to be a real dummy and write explanations for this and that. My favorite was being written-up for "poor quality photos." Yup, I'm sure the reviewer was working off the original appraisal with the color photos from my old $700 Minolta Maxxum camera....So he had a bad photocopy and wrote me up for that based on the photocopy cause I could see every mortar joint on that Phila row home in my originals.

Then I learned the HUD secret from a fellow PA FHA appraiser. Turn the review over, take out your pen, draw a giant ? (question mark) on the review form, sign, date it and mail it back. Meets their definition of a response and saves you from writing reams which will never be read or result in changing the grade of the review.

Ben
 
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