Mike Kennedy
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- New York
they can not afford to pay my fee
sure they can. run the numbers
sure they can. run the numbers
The Premier Online Community for Real Estate Appraisers!
-
Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online
community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.
HVCC-Seems ok, tell me why I'm wrong
- Thread starter Joe23
- Start date
- Status
Robert Coyne
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
Maybe we are all missing the language regarding "payment" to appraisers. It states that all fees are to be paid directly to the appraiser from the lender and not a from a third party (ie:AMC's). I have no comment on AMC's because they are not worth commenting on. Of course, I am after all human, and could be reading someting into this that is not there. Let me know what you think. In case no one knows Chase and WF pay $380 for a full 1004 (in my area) to the AMC, the "accepted' AMC will pay no more than $200.
From Revised HVCC 12/23/2008:
The lender or any third party specifically authorized by the lender (including, but not limited to, appraisal companies, appraisal management companies, and correspondent lenders) shall be responsible for selecting, retaining, and providing for payment of all compensation to the appraiser. The lender will not accept any appraisal report completed by an appraiser selected, retained, or compensated in any manner by any other third party (including mortgage brokers and real estate agents). The lender may accept an appraisal prepared by an appraiser for a different lender, including where a mortgage broker has facilitated the mortgage application (but not ordered the appraisal), provided the lender: (1) obtains written assurances that such other lender follows this Code of Conduct in connection with the loan being originated; and (2) determines that such appraisal conforms to its requirements for appraisals and is otherwise acceptable.
From Revised HVCC 12/23/2008:
The lender or any third party specifically authorized by the lender (including, but not limited to, appraisal companies, appraisal management companies, and correspondent lenders) shall be responsible for selecting, retaining, and providing for payment of all compensation to the appraiser. The lender will not accept any appraisal report completed by an appraiser selected, retained, or compensated in any manner by any other third party (including mortgage brokers and real estate agents). The lender may accept an appraisal prepared by an appraiser for a different lender, including where a mortgage broker has facilitated the mortgage application (but not ordered the appraisal), provided the lender: (1) obtains written assurances that such other lender follows this Code of Conduct in connection with the loan being originated; and (2) determines that such appraisal conforms to its requirements for appraisals and is otherwise acceptable.
smackodu
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Maryland
George Hatch,
"No, mortgage brokers will soldier on. They just won't be involved in obtaining appraisals that will be used in loan packages going to Fannie/Freddie."
This was a joke right George? Mortgage Brokers are going to be shopping AMC's to see which one's will use the MB's selected appraiser. According to Cuomo, Wamu controlled which appraisers were used by eAppraiseIT. Just because Wamu switched their AMC's doesn't mean similar practices don't exist. You would have to be in a dream world to believe that other lenders and AMC's have the same arrangement. The lender tells the AMC who to use and the AMC is happy to oblige. They don't worrry because nothing is in writing and the AMC gets their fee. It meets all the HVCC requirements.
Follow that logic out and MB's are going to be telling the AMC's which MB selected appraiser to use. AMC's will be told to use the MB's selected appraiser or the MB will find another AMC. If you don't want to believe this than try another scenario. MB orders from AMC and the predetermined value does not come in. MB tells AMC that on the next order they don't want honest appraiser. Use an appraiser who will make it work and honest appraiser is now blacklisted by AMC and MB.
The HVCC is just the Appraisal Management Protection Act of 2009. Does anybody really believe we are not going to be expected to do comp checks? I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. The HVCC isn't going to protect us from lender pressure or comp checks. If laws really protected us than I should feel really safe going into The District of Columbia tomorrow since by law, guns are banned there.
Just a little something to think about.
"No, mortgage brokers will soldier on. They just won't be involved in obtaining appraisals that will be used in loan packages going to Fannie/Freddie."
This was a joke right George? Mortgage Brokers are going to be shopping AMC's to see which one's will use the MB's selected appraiser. According to Cuomo, Wamu controlled which appraisers were used by eAppraiseIT. Just because Wamu switched their AMC's doesn't mean similar practices don't exist. You would have to be in a dream world to believe that other lenders and AMC's have the same arrangement. The lender tells the AMC who to use and the AMC is happy to oblige. They don't worrry because nothing is in writing and the AMC gets their fee. It meets all the HVCC requirements.
Follow that logic out and MB's are going to be telling the AMC's which MB selected appraiser to use. AMC's will be told to use the MB's selected appraiser or the MB will find another AMC. If you don't want to believe this than try another scenario. MB orders from AMC and the predetermined value does not come in. MB tells AMC that on the next order they don't want honest appraiser. Use an appraiser who will make it work and honest appraiser is now blacklisted by AMC and MB.
The HVCC is just the Appraisal Management Protection Act of 2009. Does anybody really believe we are not going to be expected to do comp checks? I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. The HVCC isn't going to protect us from lender pressure or comp checks. If laws really protected us than I should feel really safe going into The District of Columbia tomorrow since by law, guns are banned there.
Just a little something to think about.
rescom
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Missouri
Ummmm. This clearly states that the lender OR ANY THIRD PARTY specifically authorized by the lender shall be responsible for payment of all compensation to the appraiser.
rescom
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Missouri
What are you talking about? The MB doesn't contact the AMC for any reason at any time. The lender that they submit the loan to is the one that orders the appraisal. The MB won't even know which AMC or appraiser is used.
Robert Coyne
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
Am I missing the wording ALL compensation ? How could an AMC ever collect "their" fee?
rescom
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Missouri
From the lender. The lender pays the AMC and the AMC pays the appraiser.
I have to be misunderstanding what you are asking because it seems rather simple to me.
Robert Coyne
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
I know how it works now (as you are stating), thanks for the enlightenment. According to the newly revised HVCC, the lender (or third party) will have to be responsible for arranging the payment of ALL compensation directly to the appraiser and no intermediary. If ALL compensation is paid directly to the appraiser then it would kill off the ability of an AMC to operate unless they are compensated in addition to the appraisal fee. Which brings us back to the ALL compensation thing again..........
Mike Kennedy
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- New York
Clarification
Robert the language you cited specifically excludes payment of an appraisal fee from Mortgage Brokers or other third parties to an Appraiser
OTHER THAN ......
either ....1. Bank LENDER with a fee panel (not using AMC), or 2. an AMC/Agent of the Lender.
Borrower pays upfront Loan App Fee (including appraisal fee or is charged at closing) to Lender, Lender pays direct OR orders via AMC, AMC bills Lender, Lender pays AMC, AMC pays appraisal fee split to Appraiser.
The agreement (which comes as a surprise to many who missed the first sentence re appraisal ordering ) stipulates LENDERS CAN STILL ORDER appraisals directly from Appraisers (and pay them directly) as long as the Processing staff does NOT report to Loan Origination (except small banks which must obtain an Exclusion).
Robert the language you cited specifically excludes payment of an appraisal fee from Mortgage Brokers or other third parties to an Appraiser
OTHER THAN ......
either ....1. Bank LENDER with a fee panel (not using AMC), or 2. an AMC/Agent of the Lender.
Borrower pays upfront Loan App Fee (including appraisal fee or is charged at closing) to Lender, Lender pays direct OR orders via AMC, AMC bills Lender, Lender pays AMC, AMC pays appraisal fee split to Appraiser.
The agreement (which comes as a surprise to many who missed the first sentence re appraisal ordering ) stipulates LENDERS CAN STILL ORDER appraisals directly from Appraisers (and pay them directly) as long as the Processing staff does NOT report to Loan Origination (except small banks which must obtain an Exclusion).
- Status