Hybrid

[J Grant]

USPAP permits a lot of things most appraisers do not do in practice. Are we supposed to have been for years lobbying USPAP to change it's entire contents? USPAP allows an appraisal without an inspection by appraiser, it also allows an appraisal to be a verbal communication....do most appraisers verbally communicate an appraisal with no photos and no written report just because USPAP allows it ? And appraisers concerned about bifurcated for lending can see the viability for situations where no appraiser inspection needed, so how could we change USPAP with that in mind?

DWiley can discredit appraiser's concerns about allowing inspections by non appraisers as disingenuous because we have not lobbied USPAP for years to change its content. Fine, but he did commented on this thread the reason for the change to bifurcated is the speed of one or two days is profitable to lender's bottom line..

Though no harm in fighting for the profession on regulation or AMC fee front, it's game over, (unless a different administration comes in or changes to appraisals show adverse results years out ) While a segment of lending work will remain profitable, the volume of appraisals will be less and the work itself less profitable.

Appraisers need to develop a national website and linkage to visitors to RE websites such as Zillow, Trulia etc....a fraction of their visitors who need or want a consultation or some form of appraisal can make a difference...topic for another thread . Relying only on res lender work may not be the best way forward, certainly alt sources are best as a mix.e


If lenders want / Fannie allows non appraiser inspections it will happen, we can write etc won't matter. It is fitting the move to bifurcated comes with dropping the college/ AA degree on res side and reduced trainee hours to get licensed. The AMC's and big box lenders need appraisers willing to do desk work/all work at low pay and if experienced appraisers won't do it cheap enough or balk about the inspection aspect, they will recruit new appraisers (easier with lower education/training .. If not enough experienced appraisers will train/mentor for a pipeline of newbies, the AMC will have their own staff or program to train (see thread on CoreLogic appraiser trainee program :

 

[George Hatch]

USPAP applies to all appraisal practice, not just GSE work. That's why the minimums are so minimal - they have to retain that broad range of applicability across all appraisal disciplines and across all forms of appraiser engagement and employment. The residential fee appraisers are a subset of all residential appraisers, who in turn are also a subset of the entire appraisal profession.. The GSE appraisals are a niche, a specialty. That's why USPAP isn't specific to what the residential fee appraisers do.

If the residential fee appraisers are worried about what the GSEs or the lenders that do business with the GSEs will allow then that's where your battle should be. If you can't convince the GSEs to require an inspection by the appraiser in every appraisal they traffic in then you'll need to go over their head to their regulator, and if that doesn't work then you need to go over their head - which is CONGRESS.
Your problem isn't USPAP and it never was. Your problem is most of your lenders chafe under the unfunded mandates to get appraisals from licensed appraisers.

 

[Joe Flacco]

USPAP applies to all appraisal practice, not just GSE work. That's why the minimums are so minimal - they have to retain that broad range of applicability across all appraisal disciplines and across all forms of appraiser engagement and employment. The residential fee appraisers are a subset of all residential appraisers, who in turn are also a subset of the entire appraisal profession.. The GSE appraisals are a niche, a specialty. That's why USPAP isn't specific to what the residential fee appraisers do.

If the residential fee appraisers are worried about what the GSEs or the lenders that do business with the GSEs will allow then that's where your battle should be.

Does it matter what the residential fee appraisers say when a six time asb board member and three time chair, and chief of one of the larger AMC's that provide these products promote them behind the scenes?

 

[Deleted member 130081]

USPAP applies to all appraisal practice, not just GSE work. That's why the minimums are so minimal - they have to retain that broad range of applicability across all appraisal disciplines and across all forms of appraiser engagement and employment. The residential fee appraisers are a subset of all residential appraisers, who in turn are also a subset of the entire appraisal profession.. The GSE appraisals are a niche, a specialty. That's why USPAP isn't specific to what the residential fee appraisers do.

If the residential fee appraisers are worried about what the GSEs or the lenders that do business with the GSEs will allow then that's where your battle should be. If you can't convince the GSEs to require an inspection by the appraiser in every appraisal they traffic in then you'll need to go over their head to their regulator, and if that doesn't work then you need to go over their head - which is CONGRESS.
Your problem isn't USPAP and it never was. Your problem is most of your lenders chafe under the unfunded mandates to get appraisals from licensed appraisers.

"Nobody wants an appraisal, they just want to know what the value is. "

And so what about this George?

"George Hatch said: ↑
And say what? That the lenders shouldn't be allowed to use these because it will cut into our money? That isn't what The Appraisal Foundation is for.

What we should be working on is getting appraisers to come to an understanding that they need to charge a much higher hourly rate for the hardest part of the appraisal process. And stop bringing in trainees to dilute our own position in the market. Unlike user decisions, appraiser conduct is something we CAN influence from our end."

I am seriously starting to wonder about you. Wouldn't it be nice to have an organization that spent its energy on these discussion, instead of you? You could go back to contradicting yourself within your reports, instead of doing it on this forum.

So I am curious on your opinion here - set the record straight. You advice is, or is not, that an appraiser should assert their voice in the process or, its just a waste of time and no one should bother? I can't seem to figure where you stand on it.

 

[George Hatch]

There's no USPAP Instructor who will find fault with anything Danny has said about the appraisal standards elements of the issue because he does know what he's talking about. But just so you know, back in 2004-2005 when Fannie revised their forms they completely blew off the fee appraisers AND the ASBs input with an IDGAF. So your question has already been answered with a big, fat "NO".

 

[J Grant]

Does it matter what the residential fee appraisers say when a six time asb board member and three time chair, and chief of one of the larger AMC's that provide these products promote them behind the scenes?

Ditto for the fact that lender interests/Fannie/Freddie are aligned with high paid lobbyists, deep pocket Washing influence- Don Quixote style, numerous appraisers have already gone broke trying or fighting /holding out for better fees from AMC's Continue of course, but the reality is lender interests and profit interests are driving the train /aligned with an administration dismantling consumer protection and favoring deregulation.

Instead of losing years fighting a vs Goliath battle appraisers should put their efforts into developing an additional source of work and a suite of alt appraisal products and new products for consultation that feed off Zillow, Trulia, the internet buy /sell services, the fact that appraisal waivers buyers may still want an appraisal contingency in contract etc ...appraisers are not known for being entrepreneurs/tech visionaries, so may pay to get one on board.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

Ditto for the fact that lender interests/Fannie/Freddie are aligned with high paid lobbyists, deep pocket Washing influence- Don Quixote style, numerous appraisers have already gone broke trying or fighting /holding out for better fees from AMC's Continue of course, but the reality is lender interests and profit interests are driving the train /aligned with an administration dismantling consumer protection and favoring deregulation.

Instead of losing years fighting a vs Goliath battle appraisers should put their efforts into developing an additional source of work and a suite of alt appraisal products and new products for consultation that feed off Zillow, Trulia, the internet buy /sell services, the fact that appraisal waivers buyers may still want an appraisal contingency in contract etc ...appraisers are not known for being entrepreneurs/tech visionaries, so may pay to get one on board.

If I could program, or were not broke from being run into the ground, I would set up a web presence to capture the alternate market. However, someone will do it, and when someone does it right, they could likely dominate the market for it (it is surprising it hasn't been done yet). The internet dynamic is an interesting place. Seems to me the winners are the ones who get there first. Would love to see you pull it off J. Like I said, I would go there myself, but I'm tapped out. Bravo to whoever does.

...now if we had an organization uninfluenced by special interests that we all got behind, maybe they would have the resources and know-all to get something like this done...lol...

 

[George Hatch]

I am seriously starting to wonder about you. Wouldn't it be nice to have an organization that spent its energy on these discussion, instead of you? You could go back to contradicting yourself within your reports, instead of doing it on this forum.

So I am curious on your opinion here - set the record straight. You advice is, or is not, that an appraiser should assert their voice in the process or, its just a waste of time and no one should bother? I can't seem to figure where you stand on it.

I'm curious what you think I want for you guys? For that matter, I'm curious what you think Danny and TimD want for you guys.

I am not trying to tell anyone to shut up. I am telling some of you that I don't think it's in your best interests to lead with some of the factual untruths that are being used in criticism of this type of appraisal assignment. I have been telling you guys for years that your primary stock in trade is not 1004s with your signature on it, but your credibility. That's why I think it's a big mistake to lead with weak arguments that will undermine your credibility to the extent the decision makers recognize those untruths. The allegations in the original Appraiser's Petition were never seriously challenged because everyone knew those allegations were true, the facts supported - not undermined - our credibility. IMO, there's where lie our strengths.

I think there are other legitimate criticisms of the lenders and the GSEs efforts to reduce their due diligence protocols. I abhor the moral hazard that the feds have created by repeatedly bailing out the lenders and to a lesser extent the investors in this system for the mistakes they've made with their due diligence efforts at all levels of the underwriting process, not just the appraisals.

But as far as forming a union that will somehow push on a string? You want to force the lenders to buy 1004s they don't want? You can shoot for that if you want but I'm not real optimistic about your chances for success.

Oh, and since you keep complaining about the ASB not dorking USPAP to serve the narrow interests of the residential fee appraisers let me say that's still not their role. That's what the AI and the ASA and the other professional orgs are for - to advocate for the economic interests of their members. The Appraisal Foundation doesn't have a membership as such, and it would actually find itself in a conflict of interest if it tried to compete with the professional orgs in those efforts.

 

[Joe Flacco]

What appraisal needs to do is stop emphasizing speed. Let them have BPO's and AVM's for that.

 

[hastalavista]

What we should be working on is getting appraisers to come to an understanding that they need to charge a much higher hourly rate for the hardest part of the appraisal process. And stop bringing in trainees to dilute our own position in the market. Unlike user decisions, appraiser conduct is something we CAN influence from our end."

(my bold)

I think everyone, whether they are in favor, neutral, or against the hybrid process, has consistently argued the bolded part. The difference I may have with some/others is this: I advocate that the appraiser charge an appropriate rate for their time/efforts/work product/liability. But if their rate, after all those things are factored in, is lower than mine, then all things being equal, they will be more competitive.

These products will succeed or fail based on appraiser participation. If appraisers, as you suggest, come to the realization that they need to charge more than what is being offered, and if they hold that line, then they'll get more or this product will disappear from the appraiser-option list.