Hybrid

[George Hatch]

Finally, an admission of truth. It is NOT technology that is driving the lower fees from AMC's and neither is it an over supply of appraisers. The AMC;s are in the resell appraisals for profit business and lenders are not.

THAT profit motive of the splits % profit to them for AMC model is what drives fees down.

Technology or over supply ( where over supply exists ) just allows the AMC to accomplish it better. It is disgusting that appraisals are hijacked away from a needed collateral service, and into a profit generator for AMC;s for tax payer backed mortgage work,

Again, AMC's can profit but doing so at appraiser's expense ( and by extension the appraisal profession's expense ) is wrong. Lenders are vastly more $ worth than appraisers, let the lender pay for the AMC service or pass it thorough as a separate charge to the borrower.

You're being unnecessarily thick here. How could the AMCs pay less if their appraisers thought they had other alternatives for work? Those email blasts to all your competitors that you're constantly complaining about? How are you getting those, by carrier pigeon? Or by use of the "easy button" tech that enables its sender to fill in some blanks and hit the send button to 100 recipients across a 200-mile radius?

We get it - you think the lenders work for free and would like to see the AMCs cut out of the loop the same way the MBs were. I'd like to see that, too; but for somewhat different reasons than you. Where we diverge is how we see the high-volume lenders reacting to being forced to handle all their own appraisals in house. I don't think it will go the way you envision it will go.

 

[J Grant]

"George Hatch,I'm not ducking the question. You just don't like the answer because you don't understand how the lenders fit into this equation.

You finally did answer the question with the truth, lower fees are the result of AMC profit motive ( the appraisal business of AMC's your post # ) Thank you for that

Here's an inconvenient truth for you: The AMCs didn't invent or even perfect the fee split.

So what, deflection....I knew that...

AMCs pay less when and as they can. So do all the fee shops and so do all the gov't and private employers of appraisers, both models existing long before the first AMCs came into existence.

Deflection...fee shops are not the same model as AMCs. Fee shops provided training and a path to cert or a path to partnership for appraisers and provide resources and tools such as admin, software share etc. No appraiser had to stay in one...but if they do, fee shops o typically try to get the highest fee they can to split with their appraisers, AMC's keep pushing for the lower fees to their appraisers. Long term appraisers at a fee shop typically get a higher split, choice of assignments , loyalty etc...what does a long term appraiser with an AMC get? The chance to be underbid by a newbie on every order?

The difference is that lenders aren't in the appraisal business, whereas AMCs and fee shops are. Lenders (ostensibly) make their profits off of making loans, not producing appraisals to make loans. Although you'd never know that by looking at the difference between what they charge for an appraisal their staff does vs what their staff appraiser gets.

Well we agree there. And AMC;s can be in the appraisal ( management ) business, but they should charge their customers a separate $ for their service and stop intermingling it with appraisal fee and what appraisers get as a cut.

What's the difference between a fee shop that has a lock on a lender's business and an AMC that has such a deal? They're both paying splits to the appraisers who are doing the work, and they're selling the lender on the merits of the streamlined relationship the lender has to manage when compared to trying to interact with a dozen individual appraisers.

I covered that above. Also, fee shops (except for mega scale Fortsythe and Metro West who are AMC facilitators) fee shops tend to be local, and they do not have a national lock on a lender client and thus able to control such a vast volume of work they can influence pay scale with it.

Locak fee shops that actually provided good training and mentors are dying out or dead also due to AMC's low payout so why keep bringing them up?

 

[Mr Rex]

JG, you have mentioned that you used to be a RE agent. Why no more? Could it be too much competition? Most RE fees are entrenched (although collusion isn't allowed)

Deflection? Did AMCs require your shift in emphasis?

 

[J Grant]

JG, you have mentioned that you used to be a RE agent. Why no more? Could it be too much competition? Most RE fees are entrenched (although collusion isn't allowed)

RE is a sales profession ..though I was fairly good at it I was not great at it, too honest lol....To be a top or even good earning agent you have to be a schmoozer with a flexible relationship with the truth .... I happen to like appraising , personal choice..

 

[chad hampton]

What does your AMC do if the appraiser's requested fee is below C&R? It's also the lenders responsibility to ensure that their agents are paying C&R. They like to claim ignorance - which is why they fight putting the appraisers fee in the report in any format.

 

[George Hatch]

I covered that above. Also, fee shops (except for mega scale Fortsythe and Metro West who are AMC facilitators) fee shops tend to be local, and they do not have a national lock on a lender client and thus able to control such a vast volume of work they can influence pay scale with it.

Locak fee shops that actually provided good training and mentors are dying out or dead also due to AMC's low payout so why keep bringing them up?

Since you weren't around, you don't realize what fee shops looked like in the old days. Here's a hint - most fee shop appraisers were not trainees. Like I told chad, I worked for other appraisers for 7 years, and I can assure you I wasn't a trainee during most of those years. Nor was that an uncommon thing back then.

Even today there are commercial fee shops comprised *primarily* of experienced appraisers working for fee splits, which is another facet of the appraisal business with which you have no exposure, otherwise you wouldn't be having so much trouble seeing the parallels between legitimate (not trainee-driven) fee shops and AMCs.

 

[J Grant]

Since you weren't around, you don't realize what fee shops looked like in the old days. Here's a hint - most fee shop appraisers were not trainees. Like I told chad, I worked for other appraisers for 7 years, and I can assure you I wasn't a trainee during most of those years. Nor was that an uncommon thing back then.

Even today there are commercial fee shops comprised *primarily* of experienced appraisers working for fee splits, which is another facet of the appraisal business with which you have no exposure.

I started 20 years ago and fee shops were more prevalent then, I went out after 3 years anyone had a choice...commercial shops make much higher $ per order so make sense for them to retain other cert appraisers and for complex/specialty work the head appraiser provides knowledge of some kind at least in some cases..in any event what is the point of constantly bringing up fee shops...though since you do, maybe their fee cut arrangement for res lending did not serve the profession well and if it is part of the problem then it was not a good precedent to base the AMC model on.

 

[Mr Rex]

 

[DWiley]

You are being indigenous. YOU (your AMC ) takes 0$ from what appraiser's cut is, but the fact that the appraiser gets a cut and not the whole appraisal fee is the point.

The appraiser's cut is from what lender sends the AMC , and that i the problem...they should not be intermingled or contingent on percentages of each other. The AMC should be charging its own separate fee or yearly retainer (however they want to structure it ) to their lender customer for their MAC service to that customer. Remove it from a cut/fee split division ....

There is NO CUT. I ask the appraiser what his/her fee is and that is what I pay

If I pay you 100% if what you quote me, where is the “cut” ??

What I charge the l lender is between me and the lender

 

[J Grant]

There is NO CUT. I ask the appraiser what his/her fee is and that is what I pay

If I pay you 100% if what you quote me, where is the “cut” ??

What I charge the l lender is between me and the lender

I am not saying you take a cut from what the fee you agree to pay the appraiser. But The Cut is the $ paid to appraiser , out of the total $ for both services the lender sent you. ( thus it is a % relationship from the total, or a split, or cut ) .

IF the charge is between you and the lender, and lender sends you $ less as a total to get appraisal done including your service in an mount less than what borrower paid, what is lender doing with the rest?

In states where AMC and appraiser fee breakouts are mandatory in report, what does it look like

Does it look like this? : Borrower appraisal fee $500, AMC $200 Appraiser $300.

If it looks like the above, then it is a fee split, why are you saying it is not?