Hybrid

[Meandering]

There are a whole lota IFs being thrown around.

So IF the market crashes out next month, none of these appraisals were allowed, and that small contingency of accepting appraisers will bear the burden of their decisions.

Oh wait, because it's all XML, maybe somebody will just drop the data onto URAR forms and hope the homeowners don't testify to whom it was that actually inspected the property. Hey that fraud signing thing got away with a ton of properties and mortgages before it was found out to. So go ahead, jump on the band wagon with the lemmings, chances are slim anyone will make a deal out of it before you can cash out your millions and take off to a third world country for awhile.

IFs from both sides of the aisle.

.

 

[Non Sequitur]

This industry has been, and continues to be, driven by the bank client, not the licensed valuation professionals. Bank clients say jump and appraisers ask how high, with a small but submissive grumble.

I agree.

Until appraisers organize into a collective voice, this will continue to be the case.

I keep reading this but organize for what? Keep the “full” Fannie 1004 forever? Refuse to improve processes and systems?

 

[timd354]

Oh wait, because it's all XML, maybe somebody will just drop the data onto URAR forms and hope the homeowners don't testify to whom it was that actually inspected the property. Hey that fraud signing thing got away with a ton of properties and mortgages before it was found out to. So go ahead, jump on the band wagon with the lemmings, chances are slim anyone will make a deal out of it before you can cash out your millions and take off to a third world country for awhile.

Another red herring, which is a typical Marion tactic.

Appraisers using runners and fraudulently stating on the URAR that they personally inspected the property when they did not is nothing new and has nothing to do with hybrids or XML data as that has been going since long before anyone thought of the concept of a hybrid appraisal or appraisals were sent into the GSE's as XML files.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

I agree. I keep reading this but organize for what? Keep the “full” Fannie 1004 forever? Refuse to improve processes and systems?

Organize for everything under the sun. Many automatically think organization means striking for wages. That is in fact one of the least likely battles to be fought, one of the hardest won, and probably one of the least productive. This thread is about the hybrids. In this case, the "voice" of appraisers could be heard, where we could spell out for clients what could and can not be done, and what should and should not be done. Instead, they are designing and stating what they will pay for for, and the disorganized scramble into chaos. There are 85 pages and counting on this subject so far.

If many of the smaller battles were fought and won, our lives would be easier, which would translate into less stress and better bottom lines, all without ever raising the issue of fees.

 

[DWiley]

This industry has been, and continues to be, driven by the bank client, not the licensed valuation professionals. Bank clients say jump and appraisers ask how high, with a small but submissive grumble. Until appraisers organize into a collective voice, this will continue to be the case.

How is that any different than valuation in other parts of the world, or other professions in general? Can it truly be changed? It is the users who drive what is needed.

The biggest portion of the valuation profession in the U.S. is driven by lending. In some (many)other countries, valuation is driven by primarily by financial reporting, and in those countries it is the accounting rules rather than the banking rules that drive valuation. But, at its core, that is no different. The valuers in those countries don't "drive" the corresponding accounting rules; primarily they react to them.

Lenders order appraisals as part of their risk analysis. Currently they are contemplating moving the bar on what they deem as acceptable risk (for at least a portion of the work). Other than an "episode of economic turmoil" (to quote from the old USPAP courses), what else drives lenders' risk philosophy? As a group, appraisers may not agree with what is currently on the table, but how much of that disagreement is based on self interest rather than true concerns about risk?

 

[Meandering]

Another red herring, which is a typical Marion tactic.

Appraisers using runners and fraudulently stating on the URAR that they personally inspected the property when they did not is nothing new and has nothing to do with hybrids or XML data as that has been going since long before anyone thought of the concept of a hybrid appraisal or appraisals were sent into the GSE's as XML files.

Problem is that appraisers thought they filled out a proprietary form that said they did not inspect, and that the use was restricted to a single lender, oh but that may not be what shows up later when the loans are sold, or traded between lenders.

Oh the beauty of "high tech" XML data is that it can be dropped right in to the existing GSE forms and no one knows until it comes back to the original appraiser.


But heck it's everyone's personal decision.

I'm not going to do them.
Timmy D isn't going to do them.
George Hatch and Denis aren't going to do them.
Danny isn't going to do them.
But if you know better, you can do them.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

How is that any different than valuation in other parts of the world, or other professions in general? Can it truly be changed? It is the users who drive what is needed.

The biggest portion of the valuation profession in the U.S. is driven by lending. In some (many)other countries, valuation is driven by primarily by financial reporting, and in those countries it is the accounting rules rather than the banking rules that drive valuation. But, at its core, that is no different. The valuers in those countries don't "drive" the corresponding accounting rules; primarily they react to them.

Lenders order appraisals as part of their risk analysis. Currently they are contemplating moving the bar on what they deem as acceptable risk (for at least a portion of the work). Other than an "episode of economic turmoil" (to quote from the old USPAP courses), what else drives lenders' risk philosophy? As a group, appraisers may not agree with what is currently on the table, but how much of that disagreement is based on self interest rather than true concerns about risk?

So lets see, by your logic, a licensed doctor, lawyer or construction worker, is going to let the client tell them how to do a surgery, practice law, or build something to code? The need they are driving, is the need for an independent valuation, developed by an experienced and skilled analyst. All they need to do is ask, and we should provide the rest.

You say the rest of the world works like it does here, and somehow that is your logic that it is appropriate? C'mon Danny...

Can it be changed? Not by coming on here and complaining only. But, if the critical mass of professionals were to organize into a single voice, then at least there would be an opportunity. The power of the people has be a proven success over and over and over throughout history - why doubt its power here?

 

[Joe Flacco]

How is that any different than valuation in other parts of the world, or other professions in general? Can it truly be changed? It is the users who drive what is needed.

The biggest portion of the valuation profession in the U.S. is driven by lending. In some (many)other countries, valuation is driven by primarily by financial reporting, and in those countries it is the accounting rules rather than the banking rules that drive valuation. But, at its core, that is no different. The valuers in those countries don't "drive" the corresponding accounting rules; primarily they react to them.

Lenders order appraisals as part of their risk analysis. Currently they are contemplating moving the bar on what they deem as acceptable risk (for at least a portion of the work). Other than an "episode of economic turmoil" (to quote from the old USPAP courses), what else drives lenders' risk philosophy? As a group, appraisers may not agree with what is currently on the table, but how much of that disagreement is based on self interest rather than true concerns about risk?

I think the way the AMC's are trying to do it by attracting the bottom 20% of licenses with low fees multiplies the risk.

 

[timd354]

Problem is that appraisers thought they filled out a proprietary form that said they did not inspect, and that the use was restricted to a single lender, oh but that may not be what shows up later when the loans are sold, or traded between lenders.

Oh the beauty of "high tech" XML data is that it can be dropped right in to the existing GSE forms and no one knows until it comes back to the original appraiser.


But heck it's everyone's personal decision.

I'm not going to do them.
Timmy D isn't going to do them.
George Hatch and Denis aren't going to do them.
Danny isn't going to do them.
But if you know better, you can do them.

So you think some lender is going to order hybrids from an appraiser then take the data in the hybrid and dump it into a 1004 and then send that 1004 XML to Fannie Mae? That is a pretty farfetched scenario even from someone so obviously paranoid as yourself. What would a lender have to gain from doing something so stupid except for a bunch of repurchases when they are inevitably caught, which would not take very long if they did it on a widespread basis? In any case, as long as an appraiser keeps his or her workfile with a copy of the report that was actually sent to the lender, it would be very easy for the appraiser to prove that he or she was not involved in any such fraud.

 

[timd354]

Problem is that appraisers thought they filled out a proprietary form that said they did not inspect, and that the use was restricted to a single lender, oh but that may not be what shows up later when the loans are sold, or traded between lenders.

Oh the beauty of "high tech" XML data is that it can be dropped right in to the existing GSE forms and no one knows until it comes back to the original appraiser.


But heck it's everyone's personal decision.

I'm not going to do them.
Timmy D isn't going to do them.
George Hatch and Denis aren't going to do them.
Danny isn't going to do them.
But if you know better, you can do them.

I will probably eventually retire from my current job and go back into the field at some point and I will have no problem whatsoever completing hybrids as long as the fee is adequate. BTW, the adequacy of the fee is not hybrid specific as it is something that applies to all appraisal work that I have done in the past and will do in the future.