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Hypothetical Site Size -- Appraising only 5 acres from larger tract.

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P.35 of the Handbook can be found here:

http://appraisersforum.com/1209227-post6.html

As far as the 5-acre appraisal goes, if the 5 acres cannot exist in the first place, it never has use if the intended use is for mortgage collateral. Purely hypothetical properties are not mortgaged by federally regulated lenders.
 
Denis said:
I am of the opinion that the 5 vs. 20 acre value question may be legitimate by a lender

Steven Santora said:
And yet you can't support that opinion by citing any lender who says that. I am not disagreeing with you. It's just that in 20 years, I have only seen lender guidelines that exclude the practice and none that would permit it.
(my bold)

That's true.

I read Greg's situation (not uncommon, and I've had similar assignments); it comes the closest to my "conjuncture", but it is not the same, and is not an example that proves my point. But, what is similar is worth considering (I'll use my own example instead of Greg's):

Large national lender loans on a property; I did the original assignment. Property is acreage (5+/- acres) with improved SFR and the original assignment concluded the value "as is".
My borrower's neighbor is her daughter. The daughter & son-in-law wanted to expand their home; to do so in the configuration they planned, there was not enough set-back distance between where the new addition would be and the neighbor's (my original borrower- the mother) lot line. Mother agrees to give daughter a strip of her lot so daughter's improvement will conform with county setback requirements. Before mother can do so, lender wants to have the property appraised using the HC to determine what the value will be after the reduction to review what the effect would be on their LTV. If HC value is sufficient to qualify given their LTV requirements, the transfer can occur; if not, the borrower would be required to pay down the difference to meet the LTV requirements.

Like I said, the scenario above is not what I had in mind (first posted over a year ago) in that a lender may have a legitimate reason to request the HC 5-acre value scenario if only to use in their LTV analysis when considering their lending decision.
However, the more I think about it, the more I am persuaded that while such an analysis is appropriate after the fact (once the loan is made, like the above scenario), in the real world/FRI lending universe for residential properties, it isn't useful or meaningful before the fact (in making the initial lending decision) and for a fact cannot be used as a substitute for the "as is" value.
 
I see this issue a little more cynically. I came away from a conversation I had a few years ago with an insider of a very large sub-prime lender that the need for the 1004 version 3/05 was because of two specific internal needs.

1. They want to be able to package the loan to the widest possible group of secondary market participants(favorable pricing).

2. There internal loan processing file(lack of better words) was set up to only work with the most current forms.

It appears that many lenders may be too rigid in their process to accept the exception that come along. The most troubling aspect is their attempt to make all loans look like for purpose of portfolio's.
 
Andrew Picarsic said:
It appears that many lenders may be too rigid in their process to accept the exception that come along. The most troubling aspect is their attempt to make all loans look like for purpose of portfolio's.

Bingo!
And, this has resulted in a large number of appraisers who have the understanding that filling out the form represents the development and reporting requirements of USPAP for all MFTs.
 
Denis

And yet you can't support that opinion by citing any lender who says that.
That’s true.
And in a world where you have to support that your scope is appropriate, isn’t that definitive? When something is unsupportable, in't it self-evident that no one will be able to come with support?

There are a couple of things about your sample scenario that are fundamentally different than the example that started the post.
1. You are talking proposed construction, now. The federal guidelines for proposed construction include the one and only one use of hypotheticals that I know of in mortgage lending. The guidelines indicate that in addition to the required as-is value, the lender may want to know the completed value (to be sure that the total value exceeds the total debt by the necessary margin).
2. “Mother agrees to give daughter a strip.” That means it is not imaginary land. In the example here, if you had sufficient documentation of which five acres was going to be the collateral, that then that would not imaginary land either.

Also, it doesn’t matter the lender is going to portfolio the loan. The federal regulations for as-is value are for origination and they still apply.

Once you are allowed to cross the line and let a LO tell you to misidentify (ie deliberately feed bogus data into your appraisal), then where does it end? Why would it be OK to make believe 20 is 5 and not OK to make believe 5 is 20? To make believe the oil slick is not there? To make believe net income is $2 million instead of $1 million?
 
In Denis' example, the hypothetical parcel will not be hypothetical when the loan closes; the lot realignment would have to completed, and the final title search would have to come back clean. The parcel described is the parcel securing the loan.

The infamous 5-acre parcel is the parcel that will never be lent on by a federally-regulated lender, since the collateral to secure the loan does not and will not exist.
 
They should teach this concept in the 90 HR USPAP class! How long would it take? 5 minutes?
Albeit the fact that 90% of the students would not "get it" at the time, but at least it would be in the notebook for those who intend to improve themselves.

What does the ASB do? Release a bunch of FAQ to confuse/shroud the issue.

As for me, if it were not for reading Mr. Santora's posts here, I would have never seen the light and probably stumble into the darkness someday.
How ridiculously stupid, would I feel then? The LO/MB would not be there to help.

Sheeeshh!
 
I taught Santora everything he knows.
 
Greg Boyd said:
I taught Santora everything he knows.
Yeah, but you still haven't taught me everything YOU know.
 
Steven Santora said:
Yeah, but you still haven't taught me everything YOU know.

I'll send you a post card.
 
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