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I just blew a deal

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Mr. Boyd (LOL.. 52 years and that's the first time I called him that)...

Your way might make a lender think that there is a steady, even decline (soft landing) and they might perceive that the risk is manageable. The real story is what has happened in the last 5 months which could probably be better demonstrated with a better graph.

Your math may be simpler and less time consuming to deal with but I don't think it accurately portrays the reality.

Why 5 months? Why not 4, or 6, or 1 week?. I run my graphs back five years, which is as far back as my data goes. It depends on the market. In mine, the five year graphs tell a very informative story. The inflation and popping of a baloon.
 
i can provide a similar situation, but i would get in trouble
 
I am also in the group that would question your time adjustments.

Mr. Roberts,

If I fill in your post with the assumption(s) I have to make about what you are saying, I can't agree with hardly anything you have implied. Or any of the things you have left dangling and unexplained as to what you mean.

If you have comps 4-6 months old. . .and average days on the market is 90-120 days. . .why would you make an adjustment.

I fire right back at you the question "Why would one NOT make market condition adjustments in either an appreciating or depreciating market in this case?" You seem good a poising questions, now answer them. I want to read your very well thought out explanation about how days on market versus closing or pending dates of comparable, against an effective date of valuation for a subject, somehow eliminates the need for time adjustments in rapidly changing markets. So fire away Griddley! :new_smile-l:

Also. . .why would you not use current listing activity to see if values are declining. Using your scenario. . in 5 years the house would be worth practically half of what it is.

Why would current listing activity, in an area were sellers still think this is 2005, have as much meaning as you are implying it would? What does 5 years, 10 years, or 100 years have to do with it? The time period in question should be the one that spans from the pending date of contract for a comp to the effective date of the valuation of the subject. That is all we care about. Forecasting a date of zero value, at some future date based on any current market trend, is not only not the assignment, it's a complete brain phart in logic. We adjust for what has, and is, happening in this type of assignment for mortgage purposes. We are not adjusting for our fancies about the unforeseen future. Even if we were, stop and think what you posted. Are you going to try and tell all of us that in 2000 we would have been off our rockers to have predicted real estate all over the country to be worth 1.5 times as much come 2005? How is it that you seem to be implying a belief that real estate can only go in one direction and not the other just as far?

Also, why don't you try stripping off the false layer of equity created by mortgage and appraisal fraud. And stop suggesting that Mr. Boyd at all claimed such a rate of depreciation would be maintained over a span of five years. Anymore than anyone tried to predict the rate of appreciation in 2005 would last another five years beyond that.

This is why underwriters are insisting on 3-6 month old comps. No need for time adjustments.

Where did you come up with this myth? Sorry, I read things like that and all I see is someone rationalizing something they don't want to do, but should be doing if the market is rapidly changing.

Also. . .if the house sold in November in my market, it would sell for less and be on the market longer than in May. Would you then take a time adjustment. . .even knowing that sales activity picks up in the spring?

Ahhhhh! The fun and joy of a seasonal market! .... So what the ding dong has the typical fluctuations of a geographically seasonal market have to do with the overall trend any certain market is in? Again, you had that same "seasonal" market to deal with between 2001 and 2005. Are you trying to tell us that those seasonal market changes made it impossible for you to make the market change (time) adjustments that damn near all of us should have been making at least by the 2003 to very early 2006 time period? Interesting. I have a seasonal market where I am located, it didn't stop me from extracting the trend and adjusting for it. I guess you and I see this differently.

I would not want to defend your report in court

Lucky for you that you will never have to then. But it just might be a really good idea if you start considering what it is going to take to defend your own.

;)

Webbed.
 
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THE LATEST REALTOR RESPONSE:

".....But we already allowed for diminishing values when we set the listing price......"

I told her not to contact me....she must go through the underwriter and if the underwriter feels your request for a reconsideration of value is worthy, then that underwriter will contact me. There might be additional fees and the lender will be responsible for them.

Another lesson I offered was that the listing price is not relevant.
 
Webbed:

What I am saying is that if you use comps that are recent along with an analysis of current listings and pendings, time adjustments are not warranted. To review sales over a 2-5 year period and "average" them. . then apply time adjustments is just like the realtors adding 3-5% to the list price on January 1 on a listing due to "annual inflation increase".

My experience in the past is that "skippies" often "got their value" with time adjustments.

Also, the current craze that the sky is falling in the media regarding home values is somewhat exaggerated. It seems to be a phenomenom that goes along the coast lines. Most of the midwest is not suffering from this.

By the way. . .you need to back off the caffeine. . .or at least when you blast away. . .use your real name.
 
Regarding the use of current listings, they MAY indicate a ceiling in current values. Not happening in my market, especially where values are down sharply (mainly outlying areas). I've talked with Realtors about this and they say most sellers, although willing to consider a lower offer, resist listing at a lower price. You can really see this when you look at current listings and current pendings, or very recent sales. The current listings are well above what sales indicate. I think a lot of sellers are holding out, especially since we are entering the peak spring market. If sales don't pick up, you will probably see another drop and some sellers just throw in the towel. In Jan 2006, our MLS had 6300 active sf houses. As I type this, we have 10,200 sf listings. Our sales volume is down 23% from last year, year to date (based on pending sales date).
 
Bama... I just used 5 months because it was in my head when I posted yesterday. We're 5 months into 2008 and I have been using that lately as a benchmark in a lot of my narrative comments on market conditions.

Also, the current craze that the sky is falling in the media regarding home values is somewhat exaggerated. It seems to be a phenomenom that goes along the coast lines. Most of the midwest is not suffering from this.

The sky is falling in many of the communities I work in. One has lost almost 50% of it's value in the last 6 to 12 months.

This is why underwriters are insisting on 3-6 month old comps. No need for time adjustments.

Many of the communities and cities I work in have only had 2 or 3 closed sales since the beginning of the year with nothing even remotely similar to any given subject. To get enough sale comps to fill a Fannie Form with 3 gridded sales I have have to go back 12 to 18 months. At the same time there may be 150 to 200 listings.:Eyecrazy:
 
"Many of the communities and cities I work in have only had 2 or 3 closed sales since the beginning of the year with nothing even remotely similar to any given subject. To get enough sale comps to fill a Fannie Form with 3 gridded sales I have have to go back 12 to 18 months. At the same time there may be 150 to 200 listings"

No argument here. I probably did not read the original post close enough. My comments were that time adjustments were not necessary WHEN there are recent sales and current listings to document the market. What I was questioning is that I thought it was being argued that a "trend" should be established from a longer sales cycle such as 2 years, then all comps adjusted per month even if they are recent sales. That would imply a LOT of volitivity.
 
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I had to analyze a thee trend for this one...

Neighborhood boundaries, description and market conditions:
Located in the hills in a remote area above Covelo about 8 road miles southeast of the business and primary residential district. This is an area of large tracts of agricultural and range lands with the exception of a single section, 1 mile by 1 mile which has been subdivided into 10 acre parcels. This subdivision is commonly referred to as Chicken Ridge. Boundaries for rural properties are not distinct and in this case include the entire Round Valley region. See attached maps and comments below. Homes and properties vary widely and include farms and ranches and modest homes and manufactured or mobile homes on small lots.

Covelo is an isolated, rural ranching and farming community located in central Mendocino County with a population of about 2,200. Limited local employment in the agricultural, social service and education industry. Recently a new, but small casino was completed near the town center offering some additional employment opportunities. Many residents are retired, work their farms and ranches, receive public assistance or commute to employment in the Willts and Ukiah areas, 45 minutes to 1 hour south. The main commuting corridor through Mendocino County is Highway 101 and Covelo is accessed via Highway 162, a 29 mile+- paved, two-lane winding roadway along a branch of the Eel River. Small local convenience and grocery market, public elementary and high school, fuel service and medical clinic. Nearest major services, shopping and hospital located in Willits. The large Round Valley Native American reservation is located north of the subject and about half of the residents in Covelo are Native Americans

Market conditions:
The market remains slow in most areas of Mendocino County with some areas more affected by adverse conditions than others. Most measurable declines in property pricing and increases in unsold inventory appear to be occuring in the more densley developed and populated areas such as the incoporated cities of Ukiah, Willits and Fort Bragg. In the rural areas of the county it is difficult to reliably measure pricing trends due to limited sales and lack of conformity between properties. In general, the available data indicates that overall price may have declined slightly over the last 12 months but exposure time has increased signicantly. Covelo is a remote region, isolated by geography and only one road in and out of the area. Property pricing here is among the lowest in the county and there is very little market activity so statistical market trend analysis is less reliable. Over the last three years there have been 10 to 15 closed sales per year and the median price has ranged from a low of $242,000 to a high of $320,000. At this time the median is $277,000. However, exposure time has increased from about 51 days in 2005/2006 to about 168 days at this time. There have been only 3 closed sales in 2008, year to date and there are about 17 active listings. Typical supply of active listings at any given time has been about 8 to 10 listings. My conclusion is that while there is no documented trend of decline in property pricing in the Covelo market there is also too little recent activity to measure. The increase in active listings and days on market would indicate that if a property owner had to sell within a reasonable amount of exposure time (90-120 days) a discount in the offering price would be expected. For other rural areas of the county where a pricing trends can measured, prices have declined by about 10% over the last 12 months. It is reasonable to assume a similar trend in Covelo.

I just know that when people think of California visions of freeways, Orange County beaches and urban neighborhoods stretching as far as the eye can see.
 
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