Illegal Addition Can Be Included In GLA For A FHA Report?

[J Grant]

Here is what me "What if?" has always been in this situation, So you count this illegal addition that did not have permits to be completed, what if a fire happens in this area and the house burns down to the ground, this illegal addition had no electric permit, you "may" be held liable or questioned about it at a later date.

An "illegal" use and a non permitted are not the same so we have to stop using the words interchangeably.
"Illegal" would mean a zoning violation use or builidng, such as encroaching over a property line or commercial in a residentail zoned area. Non permitted" is legal use and building per zoning , such as a residential addition to a property in a n a residential zoned area, but the addition did not get a building permit.

Imo, since Fanie and FHA /lenders allow non permitted areas to be included in GLA, if well constructed, why would appraiser be held liable if an electric fire broke out in that area ( unless we saw frayed wires aka a visible health and safety issue at inspection)

Personally, I think it is crazy that they allow non permitted areas to count as GLA, but since they do, and it is UW who okays funding and an insurance company capable of sending its own inspectors out that insures, it is a very low probability we as an appraiser would be "liable"

 

[glenn walker]

Some Quick Tips : CALIFORNIA ONLY :

1-When in doubt contact your Santa Ana-HOC and consult with one of their staff.
2-Remember FHA does not grandfather health & safety issues period.
3-Unpermitted garage conversions-can be ADU or guest if no health & safety issues
4-In the Extreme LA County Code Compliance Cities learn which ones and their guidelines.
5-City of Compton requires all non-permitted additions to be mitigated or permitted or removed.
6- Grandfathering Houses is fine- BUT-often Non-permitted uses cease when owner sells to new buyer.
7- Never use the word illegal because its definition in the Law Dictionary is something contrary to law or forbidden by law it can also denote illegal conditions or provisions which are contrary to law, including acts that are immoral or repugnant to the nature of the transaction. also when a reader or underwriter sees the word illegal it just effects their little brains in weird ways but when they see the word no-permit found or un-permitted area its not a big deal..

 

[Mike Kennedy]

123456

 

[Mike Kennedy]

It's located City of Los Angeles.
Please advise. Thank you.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-illegal-apartments-20170510-story.html

 

[Cob]

An "illegal" use and a non permitted are not the same so we have to stop using the words interchangeably.
"Illegal" would mean a zoning violation use or builidng, such as encroaching over a property line or commercial in a residentail zoned area. Non permitted" is legal use and building per zoning , such as a residential addition to a property in a n a residential zoned area, but the addition did not get a building permit.

Imo, since Fanie and FHA /lenders allow non permitted areas to be included in GLA, if well constructed, why would appraiser be held liable if an electric fire broke out in that area ( unless we saw frayed wires aka a visible health and safety issue at inspection)

Personally, I think it is crazy that they allow non permitted areas to count as GLA, but since they do, and it is UW who okays funding and an insurance company capable of sending its own inspectors out that insures, it is a very low probability we as an appraiser would be "liable"

PLEASE red the original post, "I recently performed a FHA report for a duplex that included non-permitted space/beds/baths to the main house, then I excluded the non-permitted configuration after reviewed all City documents. But the space was not permitted." I am not using anything words interchangeably, there was a non permitted bedroom and bath, pretty sure they have electricity, appraiser get sued or accused of a TON of things, so even if YOU think the appraiser should be held liable (I don't either BTW) that doesn't mean it can't happen, especially in this day and age of everyone blaming everyone else for things that happen. Also PLEASE read my post again, you know, the part where I say, "you "may" be held liable or questioned about it at a later date." Also, if an addition is done without permits and is being occupied by someone, as is in this case since there is a bedroom and bathroom, then in my opinion it is illegal use as someone is occupying the space AND it is non permitted.

 

[J Grant]

Here is what me "What if?" has always been in this situation, So you count this illegal addition that did not have permits to be completed, what if a fire happens in this area and the house burns down to the ground, this illegal addition had no electric permit, you "may" be held liable or questioned about it at a later date.

?? You used the word :"illegal" above...anyway yes , anyone can sue or hold someone liable for anything

 

[Cob]

?? You used the word :"illegal" above...anyway yes , anyone can sue or hold someone liable for anything

SO would you consider an addition with no permits that featured a bedroom and bathroom a legal addition? Just asking....

 

[Cob]

About 90% of the people on this forum would argue with a brick wall for hours, just to prove they are right, so just for the record, YOU ARE ALL RIGHT on this post, I am wrong and obviously an idiot, how I ever became a Certified Appraiser is beyond me, the good new is, in 4 1/2 years I will no longer be an appraiser and I really can't wait, it actually may be 2 1/2 years.

Everyone just do whatever you want, you may be called into court, but who cares, if you can prove how right you are and argue in court as good you can on this forum, you will be in great shape!!!

 

[spittman]

Why are you calling it illegal? If it's zoned residential and the addition/duplex/living unit is used as residential, wouldn't that be allowed (permissable) regardless if it had permits (permitted) VS. using the unit as a massage parlor? I'd like to know ... how old is the main home, when was the addition built, and when was city zoning initially created? Many times here in my area, I run into this situation with much older homes (pre-1970). Zoning in our municipality did not go into effect until 1985 so on these older homes it is very difficult to determine if they were modified after 1985 or before, therefore I have no choice but to use an extraordinary assumption and call it LEGAL, non-conforming (grandfathered). No permits on file is very common here, but widely accepted so yes the square footage may be included or a line adjustment at the very least regardless if it had permits.

 

[J Grant]

SO would you consider an addition with no permits that featured a bedroom and bathroom a legal addition? Just asking....

If it conforms to the site and area residential zoning then it is legal per zoning, but was built without a building permit.

If I were writing about it in a report, I would simply state the addition was added without a permit, and then go on to describe the construction quality.