Illegal basement apartments?

[Edward OConor]

Mike, Thanks. I don't know how you remember where/what you store your information, I am looking for the pen I used 10 min ago! I am considering a cut and paste into my reports.

Kevin, I got freaked a few days ago when I got a stipp for removal of the basement kitchen that required a statement that "the property is now legal". I realized that I was not sure.

I started to think (a bad thing). I realized that most basements are finished by the owners who usually do the work themselves. I didn't know if the rest of the finish (bath, electric wiring and interior partitions) was "to code" or had been properly inspected. This along with having read various building department complaints (in build. dept. property profiles) and inspections about partitions walls in basements made me question what I did not know.

Since some lenders are now requiring basement kitchen removal on refi's (something that I have rarely seen before), I decided to delve in deeper to avoid any future problems.

At the current time, I am not making properties "subject to removal of the add kitchen". I disclose in the report it's existence and that the property appears to be in violation of paragraph zzz, section zzz of the city code. I let the lender determine if they want it removed. If the HO has a "permitted kitchen" then the lender makes the determination and I am off the hook for a re-inspection.

If anyone asks, my standard statement is " I just report what I see to the lender. I don't make any decisions, I let the lender decide. I stopped making decisions 35 years ago when I got married." All of the men shake their heads in a understanding, the women laugh.

As you all will find out when the DOS reports fines, you will see me listed for a USPAP violation for not being clear enough is describing the property. It was bu!!****, but I paid it to go away. I believe it was a parting shot from the chief reviewer at the "triangle" funding. I always vigorously defended my reports (and won). So, I am gun shy when a lender asks if the property is "legal" after the kitchen is removed.

 

[Claude From NY]

I just report what I see to the lender. I don't make any decisions, I let the lender decide.

Perfect! Remember that the lender's main concerns with basement kitchens are fire and safety issues. You mention it in your report and let them figure out what they want to do with the risk. I once saw the results of a basement kitchen fire in a house in Bushwick, basement tenants (illegal) suffered heavy smoke inhalation, NYFD got them out and thankfully there were no fatalities. A prior appraisal report fairly recent to the incident failed to mention anything about the basement other that it was finished and forgot the fact that there were fixed security bars on the windows.

 

[Kevin Mc]

Perfect! Remember that the lender's main concerns with basement kitchens are fire and safety issues. You mention it in your report and let them figure out what they want to do with the risk. I once saw the results of a basement kitchen fire in a house in Bushwick, basement tenants (illegal) suffered heavy smoke inhalation, NYFD got them out and thankfully there were no fatalities. A prior appraisal report fairly recent to the incident failed to mention anything about the basement other that it was finished and forgot the fact that there were fixed security bars on the windows.

Less we forget the landlord who was charged with manslaughter (as was the contractor) for an illegal basement apartment in Williamsburg that resulted in the death of a child. Due dilligence for sure Ed.

 

[Edward OConor]

The lack of egress in some of these basement apartments scares me to death (pun intended), especially the ones that have the only exit next to the boiler.

As I understand, to be able to use the cellar for anything other than storage there must be 2 exits. What I don't know is what counts as an exit. Do they both need to exit directly to the outside or can one be the stairs to the first floor. While I will report a bilco door as an OSE, I don't know for sure if the city counts it.

Based on another post, I did some checking with both the building and fire depts. Surprisingly there is no code about emergency latches for 1-4 family buildings unless they are associated with fire escapes.

Now I know someone may have heard different, I am always open to correction, if you have the code please let me know what it is.

 

[Kevin Mc]

Based on another post, I did some checking with both the building and fire depts. Surprisingly there is no code about emergency latches for 1-4 family buildings unless they are associated with fire escapes.

The fire department's only concern is two points of egress. If you remove the interior stairs from the first level to the basement and only have 1 outside entrance, you will see how much the fire dept. does care in a very significant fine. Most FDNY I know never paid much mind to security bars (they just pry em off) but they are extremely concerned with two points of egress. In that respect I can see safety latches being a requirement from a lender's standpoint. As far as getting a straight answer from the building department, you are better wading through the 1000 page code book yourself.Getting a definitive answer from the various city building departments can be a tedious affair. New construction they are ok, any existing issue, shoot yourself.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Ed - fastest SEARCH fingers in the East. (cutting and pasting DOES cut out extraneous commentary, and incessant arguments):icon_mrgreen::new_all_coholic: