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Incomplete purchase contract provided

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It's not going to help you now, but when I call to set the inspection appointment, I ask the listing agent to send me a copy of the contract. Sometimes it's different than the one provided by the selling agent through the lender. So what if you end up with two copies of the same thing?
 
Sigh. Number hitting would involve manipulating the data prior to the reconciliation.

Hate to tell you this, but too often those who opine exactly to SC price within the range do maniuplate data prior to recondiliation. I have seen it far too often in reviews, the whole report is predicated around the sales price, from the comps selected to the adjustments, etc. If nobody here is doing that, fine, but the method seems to lead to that, and prehaps it is so ingrained that some don't think of what they are doing as data maniuplation, they truly think supporting SC prices is what they are supposed to be doing.


It isn't number hitting when the evidence (in the case of a contract - actual market participants) is considered as part of the data something that supports an opinion of value.

It is supposed to be the other way around. The MVO is supporte by market data, after which, the contract is ether above, below , or equal/equivalent to the MVO . The contract can be considered as ADDITIONAL SUPPORT, when it closely is aligned with the best supported MV opinion.

Stop with using phrases like "picking a point value only because it matches the SC price which happens to fall within a broad range of value".

But that is what posters say they are doing! I am aware they develop an entire report to arrive at a range, but when the value range is a 60k spread, where is the evidence for the point value other than the SC price itself?


There is an entire report documenting how you got to the adjusted range. The report should be filled data and reasoning describing that process. Once you are there, if the contract happens to be in your range, it isn't number hitting to reconcile to the point where the market participants happened to agree.

Sorry, that can be a form of number hitting. Again, this "within the range"s excuse, seemed to be dreamed up by number hitting mentors, because it shows up in no recognized appraisal sources.

If, and there are many times it happens, if, market conditions, and closed data and pending data, supports a close reconciliation to SC price, then it is legit to point out that the point value was reconciled to SC price, which was within the range.

But, there are many times where the range is too broad to state that just falling inside it is a reason to opine the point value, even when there is a contract . Why dont' you question the contract? Does it never occur to you that not well informed buyers are over paying? Like, uh, the millions who lost equity and are defaulting? They all signed contracts that were "in a range of adjusted values"


And you are most certainly not arriving at an opinion of value "only" because of the sales contract. You should have spent an entire report explaining why you are down to this range - that the sales contract fits in is simply further evidence. And, since most intended users want a specific point, it is logical that the further evidence of the market participants' contract would be that point. It wouldn't have to be (you won't find a quote of mine stating otherwise).

Again, you are claiming it is "logical" to opine to a point value that matched SC price, because, uh, it's logical. The SC price is logical evidence for itself as the logical point that market particpants pay so the point value should be that logical price."

It's circular reasoning. The fact that it falls within a broad range means the point value is, uh, ya know, between 400k and 460k. Why 435k ? It's logical, that's the SC price!

If that is how you reconcile, do you state that in the report?

more detail than many or most here) how my sales are selected, adjusted and how I arrive at my final opinion of value. I previously noted it has been some time since I appraised a property where I considered a contract as evidence. However, when I do that I certainly describe my reasoning as to why I do or do not consider it significant. That goes for whether I end up at that point or some other number. One doesn't describe something as "common sense". That is kind of the point of common sense.

I believe that you go into detail how your sales are selected,and perhaps yu select great sales as comps. And perhaps your SC prices always are the best support.

But no matter how much an appraiser details how they selected their sales, they still arrive at a range of value. And unless that range is very tight, and the SC price is well supported within that range, they still have to explain how, and why, they reconciled to the point value, something other than it was logical or made sense (which they don't disclose, does anyone here who reconciles this way disclose that you did it because it made common sense or was logical? IF not, why not?

I can tell you, from lots of reiviewing (have you reviewed many res reports? It is an eye opener)

I can tell you that when a value is faulty or inflated, it is often due to the value range being faulty because the comp selection and/or adjustments were faulty...but even when that is not the case, there are other market factors that were ignored or not disclosed. Market factors and marketability define MV and need to be factored in to the reasoning behind a point value, whether or not a SC price is met.

I am happy and relieved when a MV meets /exceeds a SC price and certainly don't enjoy not meeting them, just for the record.
 
Sigh. Number hitting would involve manipulating the data prior to the reconciliation. It isn't number hitting when the evidence (in the case of a contract - actual market participants) is considered as part of the data something that supports an opinion of value. Stop with using phrases like "picking a point value only because it matches the SC price which happens to fall within a broad range of value". There is an entire report documenting how you got to the adjusted range. The report should be filled data and reasoning describing that process. Once you are there, if the contract happens to be in your range, it isn't number hitting to reconcile to the point where the market participants happened to agree. And you are most certainly not arriving at an opinion of value "only" because of the sales contract. You should have spent an entire report explaining why you are down to this range - that the sales contract fits in is simply further evidence. And, since most intended users want a specific point, it is logical that the further evidence of the market participants' contract would be that point. It wouldn't have to be (you won't find a quote of mine stating otherwise).

I explain (likely with more detail than many or most here) how my sales are selected, adjusted and how I arrive at my final opinion of value. I previously noted it has been some time since I appraised a property where I considered a contract as evidence. However, when I do that I certainly describe my reasoning as to why I do or do not consider it significant. That goes for whether I end up at that point or some other number. One doesn't describe something as "common sense". That is kind of the point of common sense.

There's too much common sense in your (and others') post, Stone.
 
Denis, you are buying into the common sense thing now? Show me how number hitting is now common sense! IF a SC price is well supported, or even adequately or reasonably supported, reconcile to it, yes, it would defy common sense to do othewerise.

But when the main support for the SC price is the contract itself (there are many times a SC price is not well supported ,but falls within a range), then tell me where the "common sense" comes in.

Business sense, yes, it is good business sense to opine to a SC price. Is business sense and common sense the same? Either way, still looking for support from a published source or recognized appraisal authority. Something, other than the posters repeating "It's common sense" over, and over and over...I guess they figure if they repeat it enough times, then it's true?
 
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There were part of Stone's post I agreed with, I responded with the points where experience has led me to a different view .
 
My appraisal happened to match the contract price of $725k. The agent calls me a week later as he obtained a copy of my report and indicated to me that the final contract price was actually $740k, ie there was a 3rd counteroffer that I was never provided for review.

You are in a bad position, whch is what happens when people appraise to match contract prices, which it seems you did the first time out as you are offering no reasons your value was 725k, other than it "happened" to be the same as the SC price. What were the unadjusted prices of your comps, and the adjusted prices? What are the listings? Why wasn't it 740k the first time, or 730k?

Probably best not to change it unless the value was off the first time, (unless they provide you, or you find, closed sales or pendings that support the new price, but more important, do you feel the value should be 740k, or the 725k ? Would you consider changing it just as easily to 710k? Where is the best support for what value, and why?)

A good lesson in future to come out with your own opinion of value no matter what the SC is, and only reconcile to SC price if it is extremely close . We can opine values that are over, under, and that match SC prices, but they should be the values that after all the research are the best supported value, that way they are defensible.


where was it stated the OP arrived at his opinion of value because of the contract price? stop jumping to conclusions and accusing people of things. you have no proof, and are actually ignoring the statement made by the OP just so you can berate someone. get a life.
 
Does anyone enjoy beating his head against the JGrant wall? Move on--nothing new here.
 
I don't understand what is so wrong with giving significant weight to the contract. If we are trying to define market value, wouldn't a contract (if is supports the definition used) be a better indication of value? After all market value is only proven with a sale. If we can only get a range of values and that contract is within that range, why would it not be the best indication of value? I can see that there are different opinions about that but I don't see that as fraudulant or misleading as long as you state your reasoning.
 
I wonder if the extra $15k is a seller concession for closing costs?
 
JGrant. I admire your conviction and dogged determination to stick to your ideals. In this and many other threads you have taken and defended the same stance.

It seems your conviction is so strong it is developing into a strong aversion to using the sales contract as an important data point. Many of your peers have offered the opinion that it should be considered and if applicable it should be used.

I have ambivalent feelings about this. It does kinda seem like cheating, but it is also wrong to ignore or discount market information. I have done both, used this reasoning when I thought it was appropriate and I have not used it when I did not think it was applicable.

You should develop your reports as you see fit, it is your opinion of value.

However, if you are doing a review assignment of someone else's work, please recognize your aversion to using the sales contract data point is not universally accepted and should not be used to dis-credit someone else's work.
 
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