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Interesting personal thinking from an insider...

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TIM,
I see that we agree. I tied your 2-2 excerpt together with 2-1c, which, I think makes the clarity issue more "clear." :D
But then again, we are just the "outsiders" abiding by the literal text of the document instead of relying on what it doesn't specifically state. :lol:

BTW, While it is true USPAP does not specifically state that you must use the word 'limited' when departing, USPAP also does not specifically state you must label the work product as appraisal, or that you must label a review as a reveiw, or label a feasibility study as a feasibility study. :!: USPAP also does not specifically state that you must include a legible representation of your name in the report, only that you "sign" a certification; nor does USPAP specifically state that you must have a cover letter, a title page or must include a unique address and sales price for comps, etc., etc..
 
Steve,

Thanks for your recent post about all the things USPAP does not say.

The first time I read USPAP, other than not having a clue what it meant, in my youthful zeal I was angry at what it did not say and confused by what it did say.

Now that I'm old (the big 5-0 last year and a new grandfather-to-be in May 2003), I grateful for what it does NOT say. Such omissions force me to think out the resolution on my own rather than depend on the ponderings of others. In a way USPAP's omissions make me take responsibility for my opinions in an appraisal in a way that would not be necessary if everything was mechanical and thought-out in advance by somebody (or something) else.

Perhaps it's authors are wiser than we first thought? Thanks for your time.

TIM
 
To All,

Unfortunately (for me), I do not usually read all the posts in these long strings- but this time, I did.

Let me add some fuel to the fire.

First, and foremost, under USPAP, you must define the scope of work. My comments now will assume we are dealing with a typical assignment involving the normal prodedures- interior inspection, etc. Complete Appraisal required.

Let's start with the income approach. Someone said (IF memory serves) it was applicable only when the subject would be rented. We all know that the SFR rent schedule is required by clients in those cases.

Now, I used to be one of those guys who simply stated that there was not adequate data. Then I grew up to be an appraiser. The instigator of this was the former NAIFA Ed Director, Gary Hall, form Belleville, IL. In teaching his JC classes, he gave students extra credit for research in finding homes that were rented out when sold. Result? Hundreds of them. So, Gary began using the income approach on all his assignments. Got me thinking. too. So, I did my own research and guess what? In my suburban markets there was almost always adequate data! So a big percentage of my reports had the approach.

Is it perfect? No. Is it useful? Depends upon the market or sub market. Just do not dismiss it out of hand just because you are lazy or make the possibly erroneous assumption that there is not adequate data. Only you will know that, and you can only know that if you do the work.

Incidentally, for those who have concerns over AVMs- they cannot do this approach. No data bases.

The cost approach. I continue to be a big believer. I cannot tell you how many times it has saved my bacon. Frankly, I believe that our texts really mislead us on this approach- and I have found that this may be the primary cause of the approach not working out.

We are told that the effective age of a home is subjective. I disagree. Since the market assigns depreciation, you can derive the effective age from analyzing the market. Sure, it means that you must begin with some supportable estimate of total economic life; however, once done, all the rest can be easily derived from the market.

If you really do the market abstractions, it will open your eyes.

About the only time I do not do this approach is for PUDs where the common elements have no market or condos for the same reason or for historical properties where the historical component is attributable to the improvements. That is because you simply cannot reproduce or even replace some value components like the contributory value of an architect who is already dead. I can rebuild a Frank Lloyd Wright house to the exact specs and design- and it may contain a value component based upon his design, BUT it can never again be a FLW house. He's long gone.

And, it is yet another approach that cannot be done by an AVM.

Now, for the Sales comparison approach- two points. While an AVM does do this approach, it cannot really analyze what you can. It does not know about ocean or golf course views and the like. It cannot easily account for upgrades, etc. But, I run one on every assignment I do (when available). Why? Because it gives me data- sales. Sometimes this data is not easily available elsewhere. When my own home was appraised last month, I ran one. Found a comp right in my area that did not appear in MLS, AIRD, or anywhere else, except for public records. We gave it to the appraiser, and he responded- thanks, I did not find this data- and he used it, after doing some investigations on it. Now, are these "comps"? Not always. But, lots of them are. Think my clients are upset when I tell them I analyzed 15 sales and chose the 5-6 most relevant ones? Guess again.

Next, that AVM may well turn up in the reviewer's work. When I look at and consider the same data he/she is using, it is not easy to question my work. They might try, but they will get nowhere.

I think we should all remember that we are being paid for our opinions and that those opinions must be based upon some measure of analysis that corresonds to the scope of work.

IMHO, the days of 3 comps showing what the market is are long gone.

Do your best work. Consider all the data you can reasonably get your hands on. Consider all these approaches. Only then will you produce a considered analyzed opinion of value- and it will continue to make you a valuable commodity in your market.

Brad Ellis, IFA, RAA
 
<span style='color:darkblue'>While it's kinda slack to respond to such a thread as this without having read most of it, I'm going to do so any way:

Regardless of one's basis for omitting the Cost Approach in the report, I would consider quickly performing it in reverse for the appraiser's own "edification." It informs the appraiser what the depreciation is/was on the property assuming a land value estimate is reasonable / correct. The knowledge attained (i.e., a generalized "feel for depreciation") may assist in estimating depreciation on similar properties in the future when the approach is relied upon in the appraisal process.

Doing so also can work as a rough check for value reasonability.

dcj</span>
 
Brad,

You said,

Think my clients are upset when I tell them I analyzed 15 sales and chose the 5-6 most relevant ones? Guess again.

IMHO, the days of 3 comps showing what the market is are long gone.

Believe it or not, you would not work for one of my main clients with that attitude. I had that attitude before. Until I was corrected from my evil ways. 8O 8O I would always analyze 5 to 6 sales in an appraisal. I shoot at least that many comp photos when I'm in the field, so I figure why not analyze the data rather than hiding it in the workfile. WRONG. First, you get the call from one underwriter about wanting only 3 sales. You think to yourself, I'm the appraiser, I'll do what I want. BAD IDEA. Then, they all must talk at lunch because soon you're getting calls from every underwriter on every appraisal. Gang-up time. You will OBEY. I'm like WOW, I've worked for you people for over 10 years, what's up? So I go down to three but I sneek a fourth in when I feel it's necessary. NOPE. I get the "valued partner" email (AKA do what we want or else) from the regional underwriter. So I call them and ask what the problem is with more than three comps? Their answer-if you can't "make" value (I love those words) with 3 comps, we don't want to see 5 or 6. Hmm, so I ask why again. Well, the investors get nervous when they see more than 3 comps. They think something must be wrong with the property/value. So now they always get three and I haven't heard from an underwriter since. Personally, I just think they are too lazy to review more than three sales and five or six just slows them down. So now all are happy. Hmm. it must be that Intended User and Scope of Work thing 8) 8) ...........I'll blame it on that..

Now to the Cost Approach....the appraisers mantra is always cost does not equal value...................so why do we feel the need to use figures which are not "market values" but "costs" to calculate the cost new of a home....... it's meaningless for an "amenity" property.

Hey, I saw you post it here, you could do a condo and a PUD without a Cost Approach...now just close your eyes, take a deep breath and pretend the rest of your assignments are just like them.....Keep saying to yourself over and over....no Cost Approach and only 3 comps.... :lol: :lol: Nah, not Brad E....

Ben
 
David,

You said it much better than I.

Those that do the "cost approach in reverse" have one more tool in that market next time.

If I were illegal to give the sales price to the appraiser, they would quickly follow your reasoning.

One that trained that way, 7,550 appraisals ago.

Backward ed in Arkansas.
 
Ben,

Oh, I fully understand the clients on more than 3 comps. I'd simply suggest that there are more than 1 kind of client. Those who do not balk at the more complete data typically are the ones you want- or at least the ones I would want.

We've all talked before about firing clients. Maybe you'd want to cnsider getting out your ax!

Brad Ellis, IFA, RAA
 
I am really going to add fuel. There is only one approach to value. All other come from that approach.

Further, there are a number of articles written for credible publications by extraordinary appraisers stating three comparables are sufficient. All markets trend towards equilibrium. That is one of the foundations of the sales comparison approach. Underwritters asking for further data are not appraisers and usually fail to see this fact.

Steve Vertin
 
I am really going to add fuel. There is only one approach to value. All other come from that approach.

Thanks Steve!

It is this portion of the 'equation' that some of us tend to overlook...(or deny the existance thereof :roll: )

When all is said and done, it is in fact the market that determines value.

Period.

Though the method of getting there may vary according to training, ability of observation and numerous other factors, a truely 'competent' appraisal will clearly establish that what the market is willing to pay = value regardless of which approach you take.

Thsoe little lines called 'depreciation' in the cost approach are not limited to physical or straightline functional folks... they just provide one the oportunity to look in the market beyond the three gridded or narrated comps used and then summarize ones findings (fairly) neatly in one or two spaces (if using a form) :P !

Ditto the income approach! I tend to differ from some who say it is always applicable, as in some markets or market sements it simply tain't SO. But it should ALWAYS be considered... 8)
 
Lee Ann,

Keeping in mind the USPAP requirement, 'Intended User, Purpose and Scope of work'. Would you agree that its fair to say the income approach is applicable if the intended user is an investor looking for rate of return on a SFR in a predominately owner occupied sub-market for the purpose of income capitalization on an existing mortgage loan?

Just a small thought, from one who studies USPAP daily inn my bathroom.
 
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