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Intimidation....I Will Not Be Silenced

Surf Cat said:
Oh, this is easy. It's not necessarily profit from AMC's keeping a larger portion of the appraiser fees..... the lenders no longer have to employ Chief appraisers and staff, pay their insurance, Etc to meet their federal law requirements.....

The borrower pays for the appraisal fee AND the AMC service fee. The lender gets off scot-free. Cha-Ching for the last 15+ years.

The only thing that may put a dent in this is the multiple borrower lawsuits happening right now with the bundling of fees being deceptive. But the wheels of Justice turn slowly.
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That's quite a different scenario than saying lenders profited from the AMC fees...

Couple of items to consider:
  • none of the lenders I know that employ AMC's ALSO choose not to employ SME's. Granted, the amount of lifting required by the lender is dramatically reduced, but they do still employ Chief Appraisers, reviewers, vendor management folks, etc.
  • The fact that the borrower even has to pay for the appraisal is a bit cheeky to me - but then again, they are asking someone for LOTS of money. A modest sum to part with, given the return, wouldn't ya say?
  • AMC's have been around for a lot longer than 15 years, but I understand what you're saying
  • I doubt if any dents will create significant leakage. IMO, the entire landscape will change. As users of valuation services become more and more comfortable with alternative valuations, appraisal volume will continue to decline. AMC's need appraisal volume to survive just like appraisers do. And it won't be there.
 
J Grant said:
Yes, you are missing something. I said OR stayed silent about the enormous fees. I bolded it above. Big surprise, you only bolded the first part.

I have actual work to do and lack the time to unravel more rabbit hole logic twisting.
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Ahh. Completely understood now. You don't understand how the conjunction 'or' works. That's all ya needed to say.

To wit: "I like cake OR pie." This does not imply that I don't like cake. It implies I like both. Keep at it, J. You're never too old to learn new stuff!
 
alebrewer said:
That's quite a different scenario than saying lenders profited from the AMC fees...

Couple of items to consider:
  • none of the lenders I know that employ AMC's ALSO choose not to employ SME's. Granted, the amount of lifting required by the lender is dramatically reduced, but they do still employ Chief Appraisers, reviewers, vendor management folks, etc.
  • The fact that the borrower even has to pay for the appraisal is a bit cheeky to me - but then again, they are asking someone for LOTS of money. A modest sum to part with, given the return, wouldn't ya say?
  • AMC's have been around for a lot longer than 15 years, but I understand what you're saying
  • I doubt if any dents will create significant leakage. IMO, the entire landscape will change. As users of valuation services become more and more comfortable with alternative valuations, appraisal volume will continue to decline. AMC's need appraisal volume to survive just like appraisers do. And it won't be there.
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See my post 188, where a relationship was found on AI between Wells Fargo and Clear Capital. That was one keystroke search on my part. I bet if anyone spent the time, they could uncover a plethora of such tentacle relationships. Not all of it might surface in an AI search, but a computer geek could unearth more.

The lenders and AMCs have so many layers of ownership, different companies and consulting roles, mergers, sales, stock options, and doing business under different names etc, that there are lots of ways for the profit of egregious fee splits to flow to the lenders. Do any folks on the GSE side benefit by enabling the AMCs' increased role in valuation (such as awarding them the PDR collections for waivers and turning a blind eye all these years to the egregious fee splits and allowing hybrids with inspections by PDR collectors, which are mostly ordered by AMC) I dunno. Just asking.

.
 
alebrewer said:
That's quite a different scenario than saying lenders profited from the AMC fees...

Couple of items to consider:
  • none of the lenders I know that employ AMC's ALSO choose not to employ SME's. Granted, the amount of lifting required by the lender is dramatically reduced, but they do still employ Chief Appraisers, reviewers, vendor management folks, etc.
  • The fact that the borrower even has to pay for the appraisal is a bit cheeky to me - but then again, they are asking someone for LOTS of money. A modest sum to part with, given the return, wouldn't ya say?
  • AMC's have been around for a lot longer than 15 years, but I understand what you're saying
  • I doubt if any dents will create significant leakage. IMO, the entire landscape will change. As users of valuation services become more and more comfortable with alternative valuations, appraisal volume will continue to decline. AMC's need appraisal volume to survive just like appraisers do. And it won't be there.
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Sorry, but weeds trample the flowers, and maybe one day cockroaches might be the survivors when only the bad guys are left, and they nuke each other over a scrap of greed.

I agree appraisal volume will decline. However, the AMCs will not fold. They will morph into an AVMC. That stands for Appraisal Valuation Management Company, or they will adopt a similar acronym.
They will continue to bleed dry any appraisals they process, and through lenders and connections with the GSEs/other entities, they will profit from processing the alternative forms of valuation.
 
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J Grant said:
The lenders and AMCs have so many layers of ownership, different companies and consulting roles, mergers, sales, stock options, and doing business under different names etc, that there are lots of ways for the profit of egregious fee splits to flow to the lenders. Do any folks on the GSE side benefit by enabling the AMCs' increased role in valuation (such as awarding them the PDR collections for waivers ...
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PDRs are not/were not "awarded" by the GSEs. PDRs are ordered by the lenders (or their agents) who wish to use them, in exactly the same way they order an appraisal report.

Yes, the GSEs verified the PDR software for the software companies that wanted that, just as they verify appraisal software for the companies that want that. Does the GSEs' verification of forms software mean that appraisals are "awarded" to those software companies by the GSEs? Of course not.
 
DWiley said:
PDRs are not/were not "awarded" by the GSEs. PDRs are ordered by the lenders (or their agents) who wish to use them, in exactly the same way they order an appraisal report.

Yes, the GSEs verified the PDR software for the software companies that wanted that, just as they verify appraisal software for the companies that want that. Does the GSEs' verification of forms software mean that appraisals are "awarded" to those software companies by the GSEs? Of course not.
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Use a word other than "award "; it amounts to the same or similar result.

The PDRs ordered through lenders or their agents use mainly AMCs for a hybrid with data collection as well as for a PDR collection when needed for a waiver.

Very few lenders would take the additional time to wrangle a PDR collector and an appraiser to complete an appraisal. And who other than an AMC is processing the PDR collections for a waiver/value acceptance when an ACE (or the latest name ) waiver with a property inspection is ordered?

While an appraiser can do a PDR collection, the fees are low and a joke. The AMCs benefit from the decision to influx non-appraiser "PDR collectors" to inspect properties, since the pool of applicants is much larger than the limited pool of appraisers and thus will work cheaper.
 
J Grant said:
Use a word other than "award "; it amounts to the same or similar result.

The PDRs ordered through lenders or their agents use mainly AMCs for a hyrrid with a data colletion as well as for a PDR collection when needed for a waiver.

Very few lenders would take the additional time to wrangle a PDR collector and an appraiser to complete an appraisal. And who other than an AMC is processing the PDR collections for a waiver/value acceptance when an ACE (or the latest name ) waiver with a property inspection is ordered?
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You need to read (Mein Comp)
to fully understand how these gas chamber operators function or your going to become one of the 125,000 that have already been removed from the Plantations and taken to the gas chambers. Lmao )
 
In actuality, while there are a very few AMC's that maintain appraiser AND PDI rosters (CC and Class are the only two I can think of), it's more common for those types of groups to specialize in either appraisal or data collection. Speaking only for our group, but we don't use an AMC to fulfill PD products - we use PD providers.
 
J Grant said:
Use a word other than "award "; it amounts to the same or similar result.

The PDRs ordered through lenders or their agents use mainly AMCs for a hybrid with data collection as well as for a PDR collection when needed for a waiver.

Very few lenders would take the additional time to wrangle a PDR collector and an appraiser to complete an appraisal. And who other than an AMC is processing the PDR collections for a waiver/value acceptance when an ACE (or the latest name ) waiver with a property inspection is ordered?

While an appraiser can do a PDR collection, the fees are low and a joke. The AMCs benefit from the decision to influx non-appraiser "PDR collectors" to inspect properties, since the pool of applicants is much larger than the limited pool of appraisers and thus will work cheaper.
Click to expand...
OK. I get it. You think it is perfectly fine to post something factually incorrect as long as you can use it to vent about something.
PDRs were being used by lenders as far back as 2006, way before the GSEs even thought about using them, and well before the proliferation of AMCs.
 
  1. AI These are results for which AMCs are approved for pdr collection for ACE waivers t.
    Search instead for which AMCs are approved for pdr collectoin for ACE wiavers t?
    • 1st National Appraisal Source – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • AAA Appraisal Management Company – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • A1 AMC – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Absolute Value Management – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Accelerated AMC – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • AccuComp Appraisal Services – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Accurate Group – AppraisalWorks – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • ACT Appraisal – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • AIM-Port – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Allstate Appraisal – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Aloft Appraisal – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • AMC Settlement Services – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • American Reporting Company – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Apple Appraisal (Trident Services) – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal House USA – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal Links – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal Linx – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal Management Specialists – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal MC – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal Nation – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal Scout – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal Valet – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraisal Vision – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Appraiser Vendor – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Arivs (PropertyRate) – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Ascribe (Trident Services) – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Axis Appraisal Management Solutions – UPD v1.0, bACE API (my comment - the list continues to Z but would be too long to post of course AI says see full fannie list)
    • Beacon Property Data Collection Services – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • BNL Appraisals – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • Broad Street Valuations, Inc. – UPD v1.0, bACE API
    • My coment - the list continus to the letter Z and would be too long to post here. AI sas see fannie list for full list of approved AMC;s)
 
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