Is it GLA or Enclosed Patio?

[GulfBoating]

I think you handled it correctly as that does appear to be an enclosed patio. I always use is it a part of the continuous living area. By using electric and heating/cooling duct work you could very cheaply work a duct into the garage. I had group of townhomes which were being promoted as having 2700 sqft of living area. When I measure it the sqft was 2300 sqft. The sales person insisted it was 2700sqft called the developer he came down and showed me the duct he put in the garage because an appraiser told him in the past as long as a room has duct work (he did have electric outlets)you can call it living area. Well I broke the news to him and told him his marketing materials were very misleading.

 

[GENTEEL]

Fannie Mae requires a home to have heat to be year round livable with the exceptions being Hawaii and Florida. It is a health and safety issue. A home with no heat, a free standing stove for heat or fireplace / heatilator for heat will not qualify for Fannie Mae and most lenders. The other standard is what conforms to the neighborhood so if your subject is the only one without heat, it does not conform and therefore may not qualify.

I am truely surprised by having Fannie Mae dictating of a home or total living area to be definitive of heat and/or cold air as mandatorily "built-in" (or pehaps not). Mustn't stand alone heaters or coolers work? How about wall mounted air-conditoners and/or heaters sufficing the general outlay or definition of a "heated" room or is it necassary for any room to must have heat and/or cold seasonal air to be counted within the overall definition of "living area"? Can a fireplace alone in a living room accomodate to justify all other rooms as heated to justify the entire "living area" or must every room have a fireplace, individual heaters, base heaters, radiatiors or central forced-air heat? Please be adviced that I am only debating/discussing matters for the sake of proper understanding, and not what Fannie said this and Frankie said that?

 

[TXCBoy36]

Well, I am in Denver and heat is a must....especially this time of the year. I checked and found no indication of any heat source. I do not think that is GLA...just an Enclosed Patio. It does not conform to the original structure either....

 

[Randolph Kinney]

I am truely surprised by having Fannie Mae dictating of a home or total living area to be definitive of heat and/or cold air as mandatorily "built-in" (or pehaps not). Mustn't stand alone heaters or coolers work? How about wall mounted air-conditoners and/or heaters sufficing the general outlay or definition of a "heated" room or is it necassary for any room to must have heat and/or cold seasonal air to be counted within the overall definition of "living area"? Can a fireplace alone in a living room accomodate to justify all other rooms as heated to justify the entire "living area" or must every room have a fireplace, individual heaters, base heaters, radiatiors or central forced-air heat? Please be adviced that I am only debating/discussing matters for the sake of proper understanding, and not what Fannie said this and Frankie said that?

Here is a reference source for you to read up on the requirements: http://www.HUD.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/ref/sfhp1-26.cfm

C: Heating:

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. General: ALL habitable rooms must have a heat source. This does not mean that each room must contain a heating device but that each room must receive sufficient heat. (Exception: Homes located in the Caribbean, Hawaii and the Florida counties of Lee, Charlotte, Glades, Hendry, Palm Beach, Collier, Broward, Monroe and Miami-Dade do not require heat if, the lack of, is "typical" for the market area and does not adversely affect the marketability of the property. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Wood Stoves and Solar Systems: Dwellings with wood burning stoves or solar systems as a primary heat source must have permanently installed conventional heating systems that can maintain at least 50 degrees Fahrenheit in all living areas and those containing plumbing systems. These systems must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Floor Heaters: Due to the inherit dangers of a floor heater it is highly recommended that floor heaters in need of repair be replaced with another permanent heat source.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Non-Conventional Heating Systems: All non-conventional heating systems, such as space heaters and others, must comply with local jurisdictional guidelines. Often these are not acceptable as the primary source of heat.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Propane tanks must be a safe distance from the dwelling. Leased tanks are acceptable when not offered for sale. Propane fired furnaces located in a crawl space area is not acceptable.[/FONT]​

 

[Randolph Kinney]

A lender's requirement for a permanent heat source:

http://www.indymacbank.com/bankauto/content/eng/ResidentialLendingTermsandConditions.pdf

Read page 4 of 7.

 

[Mike Boyd]

Is the 300 sf room accessed through a large opening such as the removal of a sliding glass door? This might provide adequate heating for a mild climate area such as Santa Monica, and, you should not need A/C that close to the coast.

I would gauge the quality on several things: How was it built? Regular frame with standard siding, standard foundation? Regular roof the same as the rest of the house? Interior finish same as the original house as well as electrical outlets? Openable glass windows? If there is a large opening for access has the door track been removed to eliminate the danger of stumbling? How is its functionality?

If all the components are as I have outlined and since public records acknowledges this additional living area, I would likely include it, providing I could find adequate comps. However, as a finished enclosed patio or Florida Room, it might result in a similar value as it would if included as GLA. Again, you would have to find comps that are similar.

 

[Doug Trites]

Heating and/or cooling of an area/enclosure of a home in order to support a "living area" has nothing to with religion. Oh my!

Sorry but that is wrong. The Omish dont not allow the use of electric power as required by there relegion. Thus, no central heating system. If the lender denies the loan do to no heating system. The lender has no declined do to reglious beliefs. :new_blowingup:

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

This has been discussed many times on the forum and a hear source is not the only criteria for GLA. The enclosed patio needs to be equal to the main living area in finish to be counted as living area. Most enclosed patios are not equal to the main living area. Here is a simiple solution. If you can tell it is an enclosed patio, then so can everybody else. Then you should count it separately on the appraisal form. How you adjust the room is up to you and what the market supports.

There is this little thing in USPAP regarding misleading reports. You never want to mislead the reader of the report to ever think the subject is anything but what it is. It is just smarter (and not misleading) to always make the enclosed patio a separate adjustment based on its contributory value. Somebody, somewhere is bound to disagree with you about the enclosed patio if you do not do this.

It is just better to report it as it is. The truth will always protect the appraiser.

 

[booger]

Randolph - I disagree with the following statement:

"It should have its heating and cooling from a common source with the rest of the home."

I agree that it must be heated, except for exempted areas and/or areas where heating or cooling is not typical.

There is nothing exempting an area of a home from GLA if it has a seperate legal heat source. IE say the original house has forced warm air heating and a large extension is added with baseboard hot water heating. This is quite common in my market...

 

[Couch Potato]

I have a 4 Level home that I am appraising. This property is located in a market area where there is a good supply of similar style homes of similar standard size.

According to county records, this property measures at 2,400 sq ft, but after measuring the subject property, it has been determined that this property is in fact 2,100 sq ft with a 300 sq ft enclosed patio. This patio has a stone floor and wood siding, no carpet. I also found no indications of any insulation and no heating vents anywhere within the area of this enclosed structure. So, by my own assessment, I would say that this addition is nothing more than a very nice enclosed patio. I have been under the impression, that for an addition to be considered additional GLA it needs to be heated, carpeted and insulated.

Is this a correct assessment of additional GLA?

John:Eyecrazy:

The county assessor is free to do what ever they desire in describing the property. The GLA they note in their records is made by them and used by them; there is no need to worry about being misleading.

On the other hand, fee appraisers are making reports for people who usually never see the property and are putting their money at risk (not seeing how much money they can take from the owner) based on what is described in the report. Even if an area is valid GLA, if the style and quality of one area is different from another it should be broken out in the report and clearly explained by the appraiser.

In this case you will want to be sure to explain the two areas so that the client understands why your number for GLA is different from the public records.