is it the appraiser's job to pull permits

[Kevin Mc]

Is the permit necessary to provide a credible value conclusion? If so, then the appraiser must do their due diligence to check this information.

Exactly. sometimes it is,sometimes it isn't. You have provided insufficient data for anyone to definitely comment.

 

[Vermonter]

I have a friend who just finished building a New home in Vermont and he told me an interesting story.

When he pulled the permit for his New home on 12 acres he asked the building inspector at what stages of construction he should contact him for each inspection and the reply he received was to call when the home was complete and the building inspector what stop to take a look.

So the question of does having a building permit mean your home is a better built home then for a home that did not get a permit interesting and the real answer is it depends on who built the home and their knowledge of construction.

Years ago it was very common for the building inspector to say to me that he was kind of busy and to just keep on building and he would stop by when he got some free time.

Remember every building inspector knows the contractors he has to keep and eye on and the ones that do a good job.

I have seen many additions that were built without a permit and the quality of workmanship looked the same. It's true that none of us can see what is inside a wall but that is also true for a building inspector.

Jim Hill

Not sure what town your friend built in, but in most of the towns that require building permits, many do not even have enforcement. So it's an on your honor type of thing. Helped a friend build a house in one of the more populated towns and the "inspector" that came out upon completion was the assessor. He didn't even walk inside.

My take (here) is that it's more about the revenue stream than creating safer construction, especially if they don't inspect during construction. Building permits allow them to more easily assess improvements and tax accordingly.

I research permits if there are any and report what I find, however I do not play code compliance inspector.

 

[Noreen]

Your comment:

You crazy city folk and your building permits.

I thought "pulling" permits referred to applying and receiving them, not verifying them?

I have a friend who just finished building a New home in Vermont and he told me an interesting story.

When he pulled the permit for his New home on 12 acres he asked the building inspector at what stages of construction he should contact him for each inspection and the reply he received was to call when the home was complete and the building inspector what stop to take a look.

So the question of does having a building permit mean your home is a better built home then for a home that did not get a permit interesting and the real answer is it depends on who built the home and their knowledge of construction.

Years ago it was very common for the building inspector to say to me that he was kind of busy and to just keep on building and he would stop by when he got some free time.

Remember every building inspector knows the contractors he has to keep and eye on and the ones that do a good job.

I have seen many additions that were built without a permit and the quality of workmanship looked the same. It's true that none of us can see what is inside a wall but that is also true for a building inspector.

Jim Hill

I just have to comment, When I saw Robert Joseph's post I had to chuckle because that is what you get in some of the smaller towns here, others are so finitely "hair splitting, nit picky" it is insane. It depends on the municipality. I just always do it because it's part of MY due diligence but I have gone into towns that say "An in-law cannot be over 600 SF", one local city has them filed by the date the permit was granted, well If I knew that, I'd know a permit was pulled, I considered this to be a dead end, then another town, when you ask want is considered "legally permissible" for this say in-law feature, they will tell you "everyone's gotta live somewhere"... I just function to the level of MY due diligence and "legally permissible" is part of MY due diligence. If there is no problem, then great. If you do your own due diligence and it turns up nothing,, you at least DID your due diligence. At least in this part of the country, the bottom line is you do the research to protect your own license.

 

[Lee Lansford]

I disagree! First off, as we all know, Advisory Opinions are not part of the Uniform Standards. Secondly, the issue in the advisory opinion is about assignment conditions so limiting the Scope of Work that the results would not be credible and the report could be mis-leading.

Should an appraiser check for permits? It depends. Is it necessary for credible results? Maybe. When a client imposed condition such as cited above raises a red flag then the appraiser should probably withdraw from the assignment.

Do most appraisers check for permits on every assignment? I doubt it. Is it even necessary to do? I doubt it. Now, if you see, as an example, a newer addition on a residence, should the appraiser inquire if there was a permit pulled for the addition? I would. If I had doubts can I check for permits? Yes I can and often do.

So, what if I find the addition was built without the benefit of a permit? Should I give it no value? Should I require it be torn down? Should I require the home owner obtain a permit? Or, do I disclose what I know and let the underwriter sort it out? Inquiring minds want to know.

One final thought....does having a permit indicate the work was done properly? It's one thing to have a permit IN MY MARKET and it's another if there was no final inspection. We see quite a bit of that too.

"What MG 'said'."

I can see that what is normal course of business varies across the land.

There are also some matters that are significant in some locations but not in others.

An appraiser, competent in his/her area of practice, should recognize "red flag" issues (i.e., basement apartment) and such basics as zoning compliance (i.e., "Is it an 'in-law' or a legal 2-unit?").

Here in Chicago-land, am I and probably 99+% of the appraisers verifying whether or not the subject's deck & fence or level-2 finish (circa 60 yrs. ago) in a Chicago bungalow were legally permitted? No. In these jurisdictions, does it matter? No. Such irregularities (if these are irregularities) are so common and not enforced that it matters not.

 

[Restrain]

Just in the FWIW category, if you were building a home outside of the city limits in Texas, until last year, the only permit required was for the septic system. Conversely, there's one small community around here that is such a PITA for permits that the permit officer is always red-tagging for additional problems so that he's never in the office to verify permits.

So, just because you can call up your local permit office and verify a permit in your area does not mean that everyone can. As Tim said, "normal course of business" for your area. And just because it's not permitted does not mean that it has no value or should be removed. Again, it all depends on how the particular jurisdiction reacts to such non-permitted additions. And now that I've opened that can of worms again, y'all have a great day.

 

[Noreen]

Just in the FWIW category, if you were building a home outside of the city limits in Texas, until last year, the only permit required was for the septic system. Conversely, there's one small community around here that is such a PITA for permits that the permit officer is always red-tagging for additional problems so that he's never in the office to verify permits.

So, just because you can call up your local permit office and verify a permit in your area does not mean that everyone can. As Tim said, "normal course of business" for your area. And just because it's not permitted does not mean that it has no value or should be removed. Again, it all depends on how the particular jurisdiction reacts to such non-permitted additions. And now that I've opened that can of worms again, y'all have a great day.

Absolutely, it's what is customary in your area... please understand, you are talking an area of the country that has towns where the "assessor" is "in the office" for 1.5 hours a week ( So. Hampton, NH). I was there one day promptly at 12:30 ( 12:30 to 2 on Wednesdays). I waited until 1:15 to inquire, was he coming in.... they called his house, he was having his lunch and he would be there after his lunch.... ( they now have a new person who comes to work regularly TWO mornings a week) ... I swear that this is a true story.... my point is that we at least have the obligation to try to do the right thing....

 

[knadave]

Are you serious. Is that how you operate your practice?

No, but this is how most of the competition does. We may all have to if nothing changes for the better in the near future.

Unfortunately the crappy appraisers keep surviving, making it very difficult for the quality and honest ones to make it. The same appraisers that were the" Ill make any number you need guys" are now the "lowest fee, give me all your work guys". They are like roaches, they will be the only one standing after the nuclear blast.

 

[23Degrees]

You have to make a note of it. You'll also have to research what the town does about additions that were unpermitted. Also, I'd be very hesitant to call something "illegal" as you're not a lawyer, you're not the building inspector, and you're not the code police. It's an unpermitted addition, full stop.

Along similar lines, there are cases within this category of problem where checking "legal" in the zoning compliance field could have serious consequences as well.

 

[Have Laser-Will Travel]

Compliance with building codes? They actually expect us to learn the entire building code in each municipality we service and keep up with the changes...not to mention the hours spent at an inspection checking plumbing and wiring, etc.?

Either they are nuts or the point of AO 28 is that if you're asked to sweep something important under the carpet, don't do it.

In my market you cannot obtain confirmation of permit with anything less than a trip to the building and safety dept. I know of appraisers who, after spending more than 3 hours waiting, simply left. So you need to write off the entire day because you don't know how long you will be there. And we are to do this every time the GLA measured doesn't match county records (which are often not updated)? And AMC's want this done with 48 hrs of inspection? For $225?