Is the term 'price point' value a dangerous term.

[Tom D]

Why are we using the specific term, 'price point' with value . Why not call it MPP, 'Most probable price' value, not necessarily the exact 'price point value'. Nowhere on the form, does it say 'price point'.
And every value law suite says, you said it was worth exactly $price point amount. Does not the word probable price give you some value wiggle room.

Is there a better wording to call our subject value, cause even i have been using it. Or am i being too picky.

 

[J Grant]

Why are we using the specific term, 'price point' with value . Why not call it MPP, 'Most probable price' value, not necessarily the exact 'price point value'. Nowhere on the form, does it say 'price point'.
And every value law suite says, you said it was worth exactly $price point amount. Does not the word probable price give you some value wiggle room.

Is there a better wording to call our subject value, cause even i have been using it. Or am i being too picky.

It is not about the word it is about the concept, and some appraisers ( are you one? ) have the concept WRONG.
If the concept of what we are trying to do is wrong, there never will be a "right word" for it.

I fear your conpet of what we are trying to do is wrong, We are a tually " the appraisal" The apprsisa is NOT trying to give a most probable price! (a most probable price value )

What, exactly, are we asked to provide in an appraisal? AN OPINION OF MARKET VALUE. Our opinion is expressed as a X$ point value. But it is STILL an opinion of value. This relieves the appraiser of the burden of trying to guestimate a mythical exact price because that is impossible. That is why it is an opinion.

USPAP defines an appraisal as an opinion. (opinion of value )

The TYPE of value sought then must be defined, and the definition of value must be included in the appraisal. The type of value sought is usually Market value. The definition of value contains the most probable price as what we seek in the opinion - and the definition of market value goes on to list the set of terms and conditions to reach that value ( a price unaffected by concessions, a typically motivated buyer and seller , etc) We also include an exposure time

Appraisers here are dead wrong when they say nobody is that good to opine X price because they fail t oundnersand we are not opinion a price, we are opining a value opionn ( expressed as a price or numerical point of X $ ( $200,000 for example. ) The point value is stil a POINT VALUE, Nobody, repeat nobody, except some confused appraisers think a point value is supposed to be a one god like price and only one price. The client needs a point value because at a closing, or asset division, or other goal, a point value ( a finite number, $200,000 ) is needed to divide and distribute funds.

The information and the point value in an appraisal allow the client to make a decision about the property. ( sell, it , rent it, loan on it, etc)

In a perfect world, a lender client would be easily allowed to lend within a percent of our point value ( lend within 3% up or down from it for example.

 

[alebrewer]

I've never heard anyone use the term 'price point value'. I've heard the term 'point value', which is a made up construct - as it doesn't exist in real life. But I haven't heard the term 'price point value'.

 

[J Grant]

The defintion of value where the word most probable price appears is NOT the same thing as an opinion of value.

The opinion of value, per USPAP, is the appraisal.

The definition of value sets out the terms of a presumed transition and defines the type of value sought in the apparsial


Some appraisers mistakenly believe we are providing some Frankenstein combo of a most probable price opnin. There is no such animal I have ever found in USPAP and that term is NOT what it says is the purpose of the appraisal we sign and certifiy-

 

[alebrewer]

Appraisers here are dead wrong when they say nobody is that good to opine X price because they fail t oundnersand we are not opinion a price, we are opining a value opionn ( expressed as a price or numerical point of X $ ( $200,000 for example. )

Not one person has argued that the reason the smart appraisers don't like point values is because they're not good enough. You made that up in your head - as you do most things. They argue that point values don't exist IRL.

 

[J Grant]

I've never heard anyone use the term 'price point value'. I've heard the term 'point value', which is a made up construct - as it doesn't exist in real life. But I haven't heard the term 'price point value'.

Indeed a point value does not exist in real life. However, a point value does exist in the appraisal.

It is no simply a derogatory sounding "made up construct", it is a model of value that the appraisal, meeting a set of professional standards, develops.

 

[J Grant]

Not one person has argued that the reason the smart appraisers don't like point values is because they're not good enough. You made that up in your head - as you do most things. They argue that point values don't exist IRL.

You are kidding, right? It shows up all the time in posts, and in fact, Surf Cat said it in her post (I called her on it.)

They literally say, in posts here over the years, "Nobody is that good"

They are not arguing that point values don't exist; YOU are arguing that point values don't exist, and that is a weird argument because point values exist in USPAP and in appraisal.

Point value is a concept - if an appraiser does not understand that, how can they appraise? They don't understand the concept of what we are doing, and that leads them to say things like we might as well throw a dart on the wall, might as well guess, and other such comments that a client should dump them for. They misled their clients because they threw a dart at a wall and pretended it was an appraisal. The more professional appraisers here never raise that argument. They are not confused or misled about what we do in an appraisal with "real life"

An appraisal uses real data and prices and market conditions and constructs a model based on it. But it remains a model, not a literal substitute for real life. A photo of a room transmits information about the room and is based on the real room. It is not the actual room. A photographer should know that and understand it.

 

[alebrewer]

Indeed a point value does not exist in real life. However, a point value does exist in the appraisal.

It is no simply a derogatory sounding "made up construct", it is a model of value that the appraisal, meeting a set of professional standards, develops.

I just don't know why you always feel the need to be nasty. You must be REALLY passive aggressive IRL, J. Saying a point value is a 'made up construct' is not derogatory AT ALL. It's a fact. point values do not exist - for RE or for pretty much anything else for that matter. PRICE exists as a point - VALUE doesn't.

 

[Tom D]

Nobody, repeat nobody, except some confused appraisers think a point value is supposed to be a one god like price and only one price. .

I was more thinking about what buyers, sellers, and realtors were thinking how our value is supposed to be looked at. Now lenders, etc, i can understand their need for a price point decision.
But, those are 2 different users definitions of price point to 2 different classes of people using it. Why even use picking a price point, just say market value. How about estimated price point.

I think we are good, but not perfect to determine a specific point in a range, as being a guarantee to every party. Maybe an avm can, are they ever sued or stipped.

 

[alebrewer]

The reason value does not exist as a point is because value is an opinion, and regardless of how well developed and supported an opinion is, it is an opinion nonetheless. Opinions are predictions that carry some level of ambiguity - ambiguity RE what happens tomorrow, ambiguity from subconscious bias, ambiguity due to trying to predict behavior that is often based on emotions, etc. There is, by definition, a level of confidence to be associated with any opinion. To Tom's point, buyers even exhibit this behavior - if only in a crude manner.