Joan Trice: CRN – Gross Living Area Measuring Standards Announcement

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

Get ANSI Measuring standards inserted into USPAP, and this discussion will be put to rest for good. Until then, differences are what we get.

USPAP doesn't require any measuring at all. It looks like Fannie and Freddie are going drop ANSI on appraisers just like they did UAD.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

“GLA by definition is above grade.”

That may be true for the GSE’s, But that’s not true for market participants in my market area. Believe me, there’s plenty of active and useful family life with direct access to the outdoors under street grade.

When I worked with a civil engineer, "grade" meant the ground level...

 

[Sadie]

Get ANSI Measuring standards inserted into USPAP, and this discussion will be put to rest for good. Until then, differences are what we get.

I certainly hope you are wrong, but I think you are right. USPAP doesn't require much in the way of an inspection. Its so weird to me that there is this huge push to hybrids with what I see a lack of oversight for the inspection, then the micromanaging of the 1004.

 

[Overimprovement]

No one here wants measuring standards to be like a condo. Who wants to measure a large house room by room, hall by hall, closet by closet, etc. Don't forget to factor in sloped ceilings on upper levels.

I am not saying that's not the most accurate method for determining LIVING AREA, but in reality, walls are part of living area too. If you have take a large open room, and measure it at, say, 900sqft, should the living area change simply by partitioning that space into 3 or 4 rooms? Walls are part of the house. They contain things that the house needs---electrical, plumbing, HVAC, etc. They are a choice the owner/builder is making on how to best utilize the space within the exterior walls. It does change (decreases) if one does not count walls. I do agree counting exterior brick and other coverings is a bit misleading, BUT what I like about ANSI is A) it is uniform, easily reproducible in theory, and B) any 'error' introduced is relatively quite small compared to the ease of taking the measurements in the first place. Measuring room by room would be a nightmare, IMHO.

 

[Joe Flacco]

If you report the subject living area in ANSI then just make sure you report comparable properties living area in ANSI. If the living area standard for appraisal reports is ANSI it doesn't apply to only the subject. It is subject and comparables.

 

[Joe Flacco]

The main difference between ANSI and the most widely used methods by appraisers and assessors is the treatment of open to below areas. Is it possible to estimate the open to below space of the comps based on photos? Yes it is. But you have to make those adjustments to the comps. You can't subtract open to below space for your subject and not do it for the comps.

 

[glenn walker]

The main difference between ANSI and the most widely used methods by appraisers and assessors is the treatment of open to below areas. Is it possible to estimate the open to below space of the comps based on photos? Yes it is. But you have to make those adjustments to the comps. You can't subtract open to below space for your subject and not do it for the comps.

How about just measuring the subect and reporting what you arrived at. The reader and user of the report doesn't know or care about ANSI. No need to complicate this as in my area we never know where the assessors or builder got their measurements. BUT I agree with AK in that in subdivision say where there is a 1,800 square foot two story with say a 100 Sq.Ft open to below but Public records-MILS all show that model at 1,800 Sq.Ft, then I am not going to suck out the 100 Sq.Ft. on my Subject and for consistency I will not make any adjustments against similar model matches that dont exclude the open to below area.

 

[Joe Flacco]

How about just measuring the subect and reporting what you arrived at. The reader and user of the report doesn't know or care about ANSI. No need to complicate this as in my area we never know where the assessors or builder got their measurements. BUT I agree with AK in that in subdivision say where there is a 1,800 square foot two story with say a 100 Sq.Ft open to below but Public records-MILS all show that model at 1,800 Sq.Ft, then I am not going to suck out the 100 Sq.Ft. on my Subject and for consistency I will not make any adjustments against similar model matches that dont exclude the open to below area.

I'm sure every jurisdiction can be a little different but after measuring hundreds of houses the appraiser should know the potential issues with the data and what to look out for. It's just part of being geographically competent.

For example in one of my counties, Montgomery County, MD, the living area is based on exterior measurements per floor without subtracting open to below areas. If the attic level is included, the living area will be described as 2.5 levels. If the attic level is not included, the structure will be described as 2.0 levels and the finished space in the attic level will be noted separately. For the size of the basement level, it includes the entire basement level and if the garage is built-in then the size of the built-in garage is noted separately and it needs to be subtracted from the total size of the basement. Other things are like for split levels with four split levels, they include the first lower level in the living area calculations. So that data needs to be adjusted so that the living area includes two split above grade levels with two at least partially below grade split levels.

These are just things you need to know. Not competent to value properties if you don't know these things. When faced with these issues, you have to make the adjustments to the data to be consistent with the subject.

These are some of the issues in this county. The other jurisdictions I cover have different issues to look out for. Knowing and understanding your data is just part of being competent.

 

[Fernando]

My sketch is getting a good "massage".
If I takeout the stairway, gross area is less than assessors. Won't subtract then.
Since I measured interiorly in some walls (attached townhome), I can add a foot there and there and now my sketch is 1% off.
It's almost as close to assessors records which is similar to my comps.
That's how you do your sketch for appraisal purposes.

 

[Fernando]

I "massage" my sketch just now.
Instead of rounding off to the foot, I round off to nearest half foot and my gross area came very close to assessors figures. It's a little higher because I included the bay windows.
It should be let appraisers decide how to round off.