July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[SANDY]

I don't think Socrates's students could avoid answering the Socratic questions without getting tossed from class. So, where are the magic words I asked for? I don't see any proposed language.

You can't come up with the language because you are employing the fallacy of false cause. "Comp checks" per se don't "lead to" unethical behavior, any more than the appraiser licensing exam "leads to" unethical behavior, any more than hammers "lead to" bad carpentry.

Go ahead, take another try. Let me see those magic words the ASB can't find.

Ok-here they are---- NO COMP CHECKS PERIOD!

 

[Stone]

The absolutism of this assertion is what makes it incorrect. Period.


I realize a lot of people would like it to be absolute, but it just isn't. In those cases where accepting the 2nd assignment is prohibited, the reason for the prohibition is not because there was a prior assignment but because there was an improper contingency for the 2nd assignment. That improper contingency can be established with or without the 1st appraisal, so that right there tells you the variable is not the fact that there was a prior appraisal.

It's too bad if you don't like it. It is what it is. If I received a "comp check" request that didn't have those strings attached, I absolutely could render an appraisal in full compliance with USPAP, and depending on what the client's criteria are for moving forward I absolutely could render the second appraisal in full compliance with USPAP. That is to say, that if I came across new information that was not available during my prior assignment and it affected my value conclusion I wouldn't have any problem coming up with the different conclusion.

I daresay there are a lot of appraisers, including you, who would do the same if faced with two assignments on the same property each having a different SOW. The fact that it can happen is all the reason we need to disprove the absolute assertion that it never happens.

And while we're at it, I can also review a sales contract without allowing that knowledge to contaminate my appraisal, and I'm sure I'm not the only appraiser who can do it.

Where you folks are going wrong is in trying to read things into these sections of USPAP that aren't there.

Much better answer than mine (surprise :new_smile-l

 

[George Hatch]

Ok-here they are---- NO COMP CHECKS PERIOD!

Ahh, but now you have to define the term "comp check" without stepping on the definitions of an appraisal.

 

[SANDY]

Sandy, your "solution" would only affect those who abide by the rules and already act in an ethical manner.

How would your suggestion prevent the mortgage broker from asking his (her?) favorite "skippy" to do what you want eliminated? The answer: It will not affect the unethical or ignorant appraiser.

Lee

I hear ya--- But if the ASB adopts a rule that says comp checks in all forms are not allowed it would go a long way toward clarifying the issue compared to the Q&A. Now would that even stop unethical appraisers from doing them----absolutely not and so it goes for any rules that are adopted! The ASB does not have the backbone to adopt any rules even on the appraisers themselves that would be considered by the lenders to not be in the lenders best interest!!!! Because they are controlled by the lenders and they are afraid that the lenders would go somewhere else to get their deals done besides appraisers. That's the real truth-I say that things are so bad now for appraisers that it's time to throw caution to the wind and for the ASB to step up to the plate and say to the lenders that we are tired of you folks using our professional standards as a stinkin smokescreen for your dirty tactics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE are going to make some changes that are designed specifically to thwart your deceitful ways and if that means you lenders go elsewhere for similar services, then so be it.

 

[Fred]

Ok-here they are---- NO COMP CHECKS PERIOD!

And what's a comp check? Isn't that something you do in every sales comparison?

 

[Fred]

4. You cannot accept an assignment which is clearly contingent upon a value or direction in value rendered to obtain it.

That was already included in #3.

The rest of it is either as unintelligible as it appears or not worth the effort of translating.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Ok, we'll look at this.

Webbed,

You must have gotten a different version of the Q&A than I got. The one I received says that the appraiser is responsible for (1) understanding the report generating software and (2) reviewing the report before sending it to make sure it is not misleading.

It goes on to say that once the appraiser has transmitted the report the appraiser has no responsibility for what the client does or how they use the report.

The obligations you are asserting are not in the Q&A and they are not in USPAP.

DW

Mr. Wiley,

Please define what number "1" means and what it takes exactly to do that? What does "understanding software" mean and according to who does it have that meaning? Another case in point. The last I attempted an AppraisalPort AIReady conversion to a FNC file it was impossible to do if there was no live internet connection present when doing so. I'll admit it's been a long time since I've done one. But if nothing has changed regarding this, where is all the software residing for that? Solely on your computer? If part of it is sitting out at some web site, and reflecting back at you what the FNC conversion file is supposedly going to look like, only the appraiser cannot see it unless the outside web site that they have no control over is showing them what it wants to show them .... how does one "understand" the software and how is one assured they have adequately reviewed a report being generated at some internet site out of their control?

I am not a computer programmer or web master in control of that web site. Are you? Please tell me the precise defined moment of "transfer" so I can write it down. Would that be when I click on the "Send" button or is that immediately when the conversion program sends all that data to the web site, in the back ground operations of my computer it has taken control of, and it reflects a report back on my screen that I am going to supposedly be sending when I click on "Send?" ... It sure is not WYSIWYG matching to what I created in my appraisal software package that I do control if I am connected to the internet or not!

Why are all of this countries appraisers having this dumped on them to define all of this personally in order to be in compliance? .. Sorry, these are the exact kind of failures I meant in leaving obvious questions unanswered by truncating the questions, to what are high tech problems and issues, in order to produce a technically perfect USPAP answer that leaves everyone hanging in space wondering what to do.

Webbed.

 

[Hamlet]

Sandy, if any rules the ASB adopts are not going to be followed by unethical appraisers what would be the point in adopting those rules other than to hamstring ethical appraisers?

The ASB does not have to be controlled by the lenders for the lenders to get what they want. There are plenty of unethical appraisers who give that to them already.

USPAP is not the vehicle to stop the “comp checks”. The request for pre-determined value must be illegal. There must be penalties for those that request a pre-determined value, plain and simple.

 

[SANDY]

Ahh, but now you have to define the term "comp check" without stepping on the definitions of an appraisal.

Should be no more difficult than defining credible or what would you rpeers do!!

 

[Ken B]

Why are all of this countries appraisers having this dumped on them to define all of this personally in order to be in compliance?

The only "dumping" that anyone is trying to do is by those who are trying to use the argument that appraisers must be software programmers in order to reverse engineer their appraisalware code so that they can be sure that they are in compliance with the record keeping provision of USPAP and to not transmit a "misleading" report. Given their argument, it is clear that a good dump would do them good.