July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[Lee Lansford]

DWiley said, They want something for nothing, and they have every right to expect it because so many are willing to provide it. Is that the client's fault?

Even if it were the ASB's job to save residential appraisers from themselves, it would be an impossible task. Changing USPAP cannot save an appraiser from his/her own stupidity and/or lack of ethics.

So when TAF makes policy do they ask themselves, 'what would physicians, lawyers,
and cpa's do in this situation,' or do they say, 'what do lenders, AMCs, and title
companies want?' It seems like the decisions sound like 'business decisions' so as
not to offend the gorilla rather than than an ethical decision. Why didn't TAF just say,
"Appraisers can not do comp checks, no way, no how?" Instead of this continual
tap dancing. 99% of comp checks are appraisal selection of value, of getur dun,
and finding the 'go to' appraiser. Is TAF really so removed from reality they can't
see that?

Elliott, I don't provide "comp checks" and I'll wager neither do you. Why is that? How can it be? Do we need one more "rule" to regulate our behavior?

OK, starting tomorrow..."comp checks" by appraisers who are subject to the USPAP will NOT be permitted! What do you think will change? My guess? Nothing.

Appraisers (many, that is) ignore the requirement to communicate an appraisal that is USPAP compliant when they communicate a "comp check". Appraisers (way too many, that is) continue to provide opinions of value with a minimum value as a condition of the assignment.

What...they are unfamiliar with the USPAP and do not know they are doing wrong? Some, maybe. Most, I suspect, don't give a hoot about the USPAP and ethical standards.

Countless laws are violated in this country every day...and it isn't because we do not have enough laws prohibiting the wrong behavior.

 

[Lee Lansford]

...But I like I said before, once the MB/LO's, Realtors get a hold of this, they are going to throw it like crazy monkeys at the zoo, with boo in their hands.

And the ethical and competent appraiser (who also has a spine) will continue to do the right thing and the others will grovel before their "Johns".

Nothing new here.

 

[DWiley]

So when TAF makes policy do they ask themselves, 'what would physicians, lawyers, and cpa's do in this situation,' or do they say, 'what do lenders, AMCs, and title

As one who has participated in writing the ASB's monthly Q&As, I can tell you that they don't ask either of those questions. They ask, "What sections of USPAP are relevant to this question and what do those sections say?" That is where their authority begins and ends.

other have tried to do other forms of similar service, still no job assignment or fee.

If the appraiser provided a valuation service (i.e a "comp check"), then there was, by definition, an assignment. If the appraiser chose not to charge for that assignment, then whose fault is that?

 

[woodyva]

And way too much for a form monkey. If I cared what you "thought," I post with checkboxes and not use words larger than yes or no.

How relieved he must be.

AHHH did someone wake up cranky from their Nap?

But you do care Steve. :Emoticon_hug: Can't we just be friends?

 

[Workbox]

If the appraiser provided a valuation service (i.e a "comp check"), then there was, by definition, an assignment. If the appraiser chose not to charge for that assignment, then whose fault is that?

Hey, I am still waiting on a couple of desktops to get paid, but then again, I did it more as examples of how they do not work, because they are based on "if" you can hit a number by the the requester. Sure it can be USPAP compliant, but it is still based on if the value is their. Simple concept, not very hard.

Of course we know that their are fools doing it for free or in some cases AA-AVMS for other lenders that will end up sending it to real appraisers to do the full appraisal for full fee or more. They are getting hosed on both ends. I know that these lenders/AMC's first get these fools to do the Desktops/CompChecks and once they get what they want they send to the skilled appraiser with out their knowledge that they have ran the numbers first. Either because they want to have it done by an appraiser with no infractions/litigation, has a Certification, is not on "do not use lists", or carries E&O.

They are still doing them, these big unregulated boys, but have different names for comp checks now and are getting creative every other day. This Q&A does not benefit the public or us.

 

[woodyva]

As one who has participated in writing the ASB's monthly Q&As, I can tell you that they don't ask either of those questions. They ask, "What sections of USPAP are relevant to this question and what do those sections say?" That is where their authority begins and ends.



If the appraiser provided a valuation service (i.e a "comp check"), then there was, by definition, an assignment. If the appraiser chose not to charge for that assignment, then whose fault is that?

Giving away a free service is a business decision, similar to buying a client a pair of tickets or buying lunch.

It is non-compliant to do this if you exchange the gift in order to get more work, but not to enhance your PR in general.


I think most people are upset because we know that skippy is doing this stuff to get work, and it hurts us all to get work removed from the level playing field. Making it illegal to find an appraiser using comp checks would be nice, but USPAP begins and ends with licensed appraisers.

Lender licensing is next, but if they fund it like they fund our Boards, then the ability for regulation goes away. With the amounts of commissions most of these folks make, it seems fitting that they take a portion to handle regulations from each loan closed. This is a lofty idea, but perhaps requiring originators to not receive commissions is the right way to go. Since these positions affect families,wouldn't it be that they work as lending counselors more so than sales people? Ethics do not exist when large commissions are on the table. I do know some ethical lenders, but i know a whole lot more that are not.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Yes, Yes, I know it is USPAP and I am not a Guru by all means, but I have friends for the answers and I have many here that can advise or interpret to me correctly. But it is so basic and fundamental of what a "Comp Check" means, and so should the TAF and others. We can put as much Vanilla Icing on top, in the middle of a Chocolate cake, but you are still going to taste the Chocolate. No matter how you "Vanilla" this topic, It is still about hitting the number/value.

"Comp check" is simply slang, and we all know it, including those at the ASB. With slang, you ask 10 people a definition and you get 10 different answers. Even the gurus don't agree. I simply don't see the point of a standards board getting into the discussion of what the slang means and basing an opinion on a particular definition of a slang which is going to raise the ire of a large number of appraisers. For gosh sakes, they basically avoided providing a definition and people are up in arms.

I'm of the position that a comp check is a contingent valuation...always...because of where this issue originated from. However, when reading the Q&A, I'm not imposing my definition of a comp check on the Q&A and interpreting it with blinders on. The point is to read the answer for consistency...and I have no problem with this Q&A.

 

[woodyva]

I'm of the position that a comp check is a contingent valuation...always...because of where this issue originated from. However, when reading the Q&A, I'm not imposing my definition of a comp check on the Q&A and interpreting it with blinders on. The point is to read the answer for consistency...and I have no problem with this Q&A.

Dave:

Most are upset that no real decisive answer came from it. My spineless comment from earlier was just emotion over reading the way brokers are using this to now on their posts to support their purposes. Some were expecting ad hoping that TAF would say don't do them, but that would be right only 99.9% of the time. So they gave an answer that precludes them from being wrong 0.1% of the time. Being that they are our standards banner, they can't afford dto set themselves up to be wrong, at least intentionally.

It was just another broad answer. The same things are evident in arguments over gun control and what the bill of rights displays.

It all comes down to how one can understands and how one practices.

We have had the answers all along.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

I always find it amazing that Residential people throw up their mess in the face of Commercial appraisers. The simple fact of the matter is that commercial people dont put up with the bs that residential people do.

The people that think what happens in residential side will happen, or wish will happen, on the commercial side display a lack of understanding. Let's say AMCs take over the commercial lending side of the business. Will it affect some people?...sure. But there are a whole lot of GCs that don't do much, or any, lending work in the first place, and I can't see attorneys/CPAs/municipalites/etc. putting their ordering in the hands of AMCs any time soon.

But supply and demand has to be a big part of it, and that has to prevent people from diversifying out of mortgage work. The number of residential appraisers in California doubled since 2002. I think mortgage volume peaked around 2002-03, and is down by 75%. If there weren't too many appraiser chasing too few assgnments, there is no way the market would be getting more work for much less money. The new 1004 is more work and more liablity, and most large lenders are jacking up the work requirements, and offering a whopping $200. Until there are few enough that people will start saying - $200? I need that just to turn on my computer! - I don't see it changing.

I'm not referring to diversification within lending, but without.

With regard to work that falls under the scope of practice of a GC, I'm actually surprised at how little work is lending related. I my own case, I only recall one commercial lending assignment this year.

With regard to supply and demand, there is a barrier once one steps outside of the lending arena. For example, an litigation attorney doesn't just mass email applications asking if the appraiser can fog a mirror and has E&O, then throw 'em on the stand. Competence matters, and form-filling abilities and familiarity with GSE guidelines absolutely will not cut it.

As a real-life example: It took us two years to get approved by a municipal entity, and that was after being invited to be approved and submitting all sorts of paperwork and proving our qualifications.

 

[Workbox]

As one who has participated in writing the ASB's monthly Q&As, I can tell you that they don't ask either of those questions. They ask, "What sections of USPAP are relevant to this question and what do those sections say?" That is where their authority begins and ends

OK, where in USPAP is the Definition of "Comp Check" ever mentioned or part of USPAP? why even allow it as a definition or give it creadance? The TAF should have known better.