July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[Bearslide]

For any who think that MB's "just want an idea" - I was treated to this little diatribe yesterday after politely telling an MB "NO". It's not about USPAP compliant anything - it's about finding number hitters.

What I find scarey is that people with this mentality and character issues have access to the private information of borrowers - ss numbers, etc. Shame the public doesn't go read Broker Outpost - they would get a real good idea of the kind of people they are dealing with. This guy should get a prize ..........

Hopefully, our State Board, Banking Department and Governor's Office enjoyed this as much as I did...........


In regards to your nasty e-mail...........If I had a nickel for every rotten, thieving appraiser who knowingly took $3 or $4 Hundred dollars from my unassuming prospective borrowers only to send me a reoport 15K or so light, I'd be rich too! Let me explain something to you, genius>>>>> It ought to be illegal for you to conduct a full appraisal knowing damm well that you can't get anywhere near the value needed to support the loan the person needs. I mean afterall they are in the market for a new loan, Not a new appraisal!!! If it weren't for Loan Officers whom I can tell you're so, so fond of..... you'd be out of your pathetic little job now wouldn't you???? No one asked you to gurantee value. In fact, we know better than to even ask an appraiser to gurantee getting out to simply do an appraisal in any reasonable time frame, let alone get my report back before foreclosure prceedings start. Believe me no one on our side of business believes any of you are smart enough to gurantee anything. What loan officers are asking for is a little ethical behavior. We dont ask you to predict VALUE but we wish you guys had enough MORAL VALUE to let us know when the prospects estimate on value isn't even close. Do you have any idea what its like to have to call a senior citizen who is deciding if they should pay for thier medicine or thier dinner and tell them that the loan they thought would save them no longer exists because value is too low (not your fault) and thier out $400 because the appraiser didnt have enough class not to go out to do it after the computer told them no chance of getting the value (Definately your fault!!)?? No one is asking you to work for FREE. Although let's face it.......What you do, (go to a home and play photographer for 30 mins, then sit in front of a PC online finding the nuts and bolts of the report) is not really work. You may have convinced youself that it is, but nobody else believes it. Going forward I propose that all appraisers do some free work. Thats right, for every 5 appraisals ordered we should get one for free. We'll concider it retribution for all of your bull****!! sort of an aggrivation tax if you will. The comp check was born by lousy appraisers stealing money. You see new loan officers don't even request them. No, it takes a good seasoned LO whose had thier balls kicked in enough times to realize that maybe they better get an indication on value range prior to giving payment information. This whole problem was created by you people. thats right, YOU PEOPLE!! If you guys would have always let an LO know that value isnt even close, LO's would never have begun asking for comps. Guess what else??? Your book of business would be much larger since LO's who could depend on your honesty would stick with you. Its's either a deal or it's not. If it's a deal, you get paid, if it's not, you dont't. But not you greedy money grubbing bastrds!! No, you guys wanna get paid everytime, deal or no deal. Now the policy makers are creating law to make it easier for you to do so. After all somebody has to step up and appear like thier ensuring that the housing value inflation won't happen again. Ya, right!!! I can't stand all of you *******s who are just as much to blame as everybody else. You ought to be ashamed!!!!

 

[Fred]

greedy money grubbing bastrds!!

I like that. I might get that put on a business card. Certified GMGB.

BTW, I do think the want "just an idea," just an idea of what the property is worth, because "appraisals" cost money.

 

[George Hatch]

Kinda makes for a compelling argument for moving away from MB-centric business plans, wouldnt you say?

 

[Bearslide]

Kinda makes for a compelling argument for moving away from MB-centric business plans, wouldnt you say?

I made that business decision quite some time ago. I deal with as few MB's as possible. This was an unsolicited email from someone I have never worked for, and probably a broadcast email. Apparently he took issue with being told "NO".

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Kinda makes for a compelling argument for moving away from MB-centric business plans, wouldnt you say?

What's a MB?

Seriously, I suggest making it a habit to not work for persons with questionable ethics. Regardless of whether the appraiser did their job correctly or not, eventually the appraiser's name is going to come up in an investigation.

 

[Hamlet]

I made that business decision quite some time ago. I deal with as few MB's as possible. This was an unsolicited email from someone I have never worked for, and probably a broadcast email. Apparently he took issue with being told "NO".

Again, it is supply and demand. There are appraisers out there who are supplying this demand. As long as MBs are able to order appraisals, this crap will continue.

The problem clearly is NOT ethical appraisers interpretation of USPAP that needs clarifying or correcting.

 

[Joyce Potts]

For any who think that MB's "just want an idea" - I was treated to this little diatribe yesterday after politely telling an MB "NO". It's not about USPAP compliant anything - it's about finding number hitters.

What I find scarey is that people with this mentality and character issues have access to the private information of borrowers - ss numbers, etc. Shame the public doesn't go read Broker Outpost - they would get a real good idea of the kind of people they are dealing with. This guy should get a prize ..........

Hopefully, our State Board, Banking Department and Governor's Office enjoyed this as much as I did...........


In regards to your nasty e-mail...........If I had a nickel for every rotten, thieving appraiser who knowingly took $3 or $4 Hundred dollars from my unassuming prospective borrowers only to send me a reoport 15K or so light, I'd be rich too! Let me explain something to you, genius>>>>> It ought to be illegal for you to conduct a full appraisal knowing damm well that you can't get anywhere near the value needed to support the loan the person needs. I mean afterall they are in the market for a new loan, Not a new appraisal!!! If it weren't for Loan Officers whom I can tell you're so, so fond of..... you'd be out of your pathetic little job now wouldn't you???? No one asked you to gurantee value. In fact, we know better than to even ask an appraiser to gurantee getting out to simply do an appraisal in any reasonable time frame, let alone get my report back before foreclosure prceedings start. Believe me no one on our side of business believes any of you are smart enough to gurantee anything. What loan officers are asking for is a little ethical behavior. We dont ask you to predict VALUE but we wish you guys had enough MORAL VALUE to let us know when the prospects estimate on value isn't even close. Do you have any idea what its like to have to call a senior citizen who is deciding if they should pay for thier medicine or thier dinner and tell them that the loan they thought would save them no longer exists because value is too low (not your fault) and thier out $400 because the appraiser didnt have enough class not to go out to do it after the computer told them no chance of getting the value (Definately your fault!!)?? No one is asking you to work for FREE. Although let's face it.......What you do, (go to a home and play photographer for 30 mins, then sit in front of a PC online finding the nuts and bolts of the report) is not really work. You may have convinced youself that it is, but nobody else believes it. Going forward I propose that all appraisers do some free work. Thats right, for every 5 appraisals ordered we should get one for free. We'll concider it retribution for all of your bull****!! sort of an aggrivation tax if you will. The comp check was born by lousy appraisers stealing money. You see new loan officers don't even request them. No, it takes a good seasoned LO whose had thier balls kicked in enough times to realize that maybe they better get an indication on value range prior to giving payment information. This whole problem was created by you people. thats right, YOU PEOPLE!! If you guys would have always let an LO know that value isnt even close, LO's would never have begun asking for comps. Guess what else??? Your book of business would be much larger since LO's who could depend on your honesty would stick with you. Its's either a deal or it's not. If it's a deal, you get paid, if it's not, you dont't. But not you greedy money grubbing bastrds!! No, you guys wanna get paid everytime, deal or no deal. Now the policy makers are creating law to make it easier for you to do so. After all somebody has to step up and appear like thier ensuring that the housing value inflation won't happen again. Ya, right!!! I can't stand all of you *******s who are just as much to blame as everybody else. You ought to be ashamed!!!!

Broker Outpost is full of these types of posts. No one really cares. There are blatant, published confessions of fraud on the part of many mortgage brokers on that website as far as I'm concerned, and still nothing is done.

Go figure.

 

[Offshore]

Kinda makes for a compelling argument for moving away from MB-centric business plans, wouldnt you say?

You've made similar smug comments before. How do you know what type of clients others have?

 

[Fred]

Broker Outpost is full of these types of posts. No one really cares. There are blatant, published confessions of fraud on the part of many mortgage brokers on that website as far as I'm concerned, and still nothing is done.

Go figure.

You have certainly intriguied me with the site. Sounds like an eye-opening read.

 

[George Hatch]

I apologize if my comment came across as being smug, but now it's my turn to suggest that we be real about this. If someone is working for the government or on staff with a lender they don't don't see or hear the term "comp check" unless the come here and read posts complaining about them.

If an appraiser is working directly for the regulated institution they don't have a problem with comp check requests either; not because those bankers are all automatically more ethical but because if/when they do want to apply pressure they are compelled to use more subtle methods.

I recognize that the residential end of the appraisal business is largely dependent on third party loan originators for their livlihood if for no other reason than those brokers originate from 55% or more (depending on whose statistics you use) of the loans.

So who's kidding who about me being smug? All I'm saying is that the people who feel the most vulnerable and the most abused by the comp check requests are limited to a portion of the people who have to deal with MBs on a day-to-day basis.


I actually do have a couple MBs for whom I do appraisals a few times a year. Usually they're commercial deals going to a hard money lender, but not always. I'm not rude or discourteous with any potential client when they call. But I don't depend on their business and if they were to step out of line I wouldn't think twice about terminating our arrangement. That's because they don't comprise a large percentage of my business and I don't feel like I have no options.

The comp check issue is a problem for appraisers to the extent they allow it to be a problem. The knuckleheads who go with the flow don't have a problem with it; the appraisers who have a diverse enough appraisal practice that they're not dependent on these guys don't have a problem with it; it's only the appraisers who rely on this type of client AND who are trying to do the right thing who experience this conflict in any large degree.

I mean, who really wants to work for the type of client who would put you at risk anyway? It's not like these people are professionals in every other way EXCEPT for how they deal with appraisers. The same MB who will behave unethically with the appraisal is just being consistent with their SOP. They'll play the same games with all other aspects of their process, too.

In all the years I've been here I've never made any secret of the disdain I have for allowing the appraisers to be engaged primarly by third party loan originators. If the validity of my attitude towards those folks might have been up for debate before, I think it's safe to say that current events have pretty much settled it by now.

My point was and is that once an appraiser has a more diverse book of work they have a lot more leverage to limit their MB relationships to their regular repeat business and those random phone calls that dont start out on the wrong foot.

BTW, if I was on your end of the business I would not generally just refuse outright to perform a comp check for an MB. I would give them a choice and allow them the courtesy of deciding for themself how our relationship was going to go. Many would simply go away, albeit not in a huff; and the few I could salvage (due to their more reasonable expectations) would become paying customers. I'd probably still be struggling just as much as you all are, but that's really a function of supply and demand (not comp checks); and your end of the business has only yourselves to blame for that.

Make no mistake here - the "comp check" issue itself is not the primary problem; it's just a symptom of the problem of unethical clients trying to cheat their lenders.