July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[Mike Kennedy]

Mike, when you appraise a pending sale, to you refuse/return the order if they send a contract to you with a sales price on it?

Perhaps you missed my comments above. Suggest you scroll up to #644. Thanks.

p.s. Contract Review deserves a separate thread - it has nothing to do with accepting an assignment contingent upon a "preliminary verbal or written opinion of value" requested/required as a condition of placing a second order delivered by a licensed appraiser to OBTAIN a "real" appraisal order for the exact same loan, borrower, client, and intended use.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

I havent asked him to protect my anything. I can read the question and the answer and I understand what it means. I fear he is the one that has issues with what it says which is contrary to that which he wished it said.

But, none the less, thank you for answering for him.

Kindly refer to post 644 as well. :icon_idea:

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Perhaps you missed my comments above. Suggest you scroll up. Thanks.

p.s. Contract Review deserves a separate thread - it has nothing to do with accepting an assignment contingent upon a "preliminary verbal or written opinion of value" delivered by a licensed appraiser to OBTAIN a second "real" appraisal order.

Isnt this something that you have essentially made up Mike? I mean do you have an order that states this ... or is this again supposition and support for why you dont like the reality of the ASB Q&A?

I have read your posts and while I agree in principal with you in your stance, you remain of the opinion that USPAP or the ASB should ban something from happening. Well ... lets analize that for a moment ... Drugs are banned in the US .. and yet there is drug traffic. Murder is against the law and yet there are murders. Speeding is against the law and yet everyday people speed.

Ethics cant be adjudicated .. its impossible. I fully understand your message, however, the message is presented in the wrong way in my opinion. I dont have the answers for anyone, other than myself, and as I have pointed out several times I just say NO. It works and it has worked for me for sometime now.

With regard to post 644 ... if you want my honest opinion .. you seem to be of the opinion we mean something ... and more and more I am realizing we dont mean a tinkers damn in the scheme of things. We are a pimple in the real world and its very doubtful we will be able to give our "host" acne. The lager battles are being dicated for our country and the writing is on the wall. If you are not an appraiser who does specialty work that is quite diverse, you will not survive plain and simple. Mortgage work may come back for a while but the writing is on the wall, soon it will be all automated and we will have nothing to do with it. Just as there are few small town doctors any more .. there will be few small town (time) appraisers soon.
Its easy to see ... but yet we fight till the death. This isnt a hill im going to die on however, there are many more important things in the world than some dumb *** appraiser willing to give his/her work away for free. Frankly I dont care. If they do it long enough, they will starve ... either way ... they wont be in business long.
The blinders must come off if anyone is going to survive.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

see Post 644.

 

[Bill_FL]

Mike, lucky for me multiple monitors makes this easy. You have referred me to post 644. Looking at it on the other screen - (no sense reposting it since it has NOTHING to do with the question I asked you).

In a previous post, you said:

still alive and well in 2008 ( 1004_05)


CERT.18. My employment and/or compensation for performing this appraisal or any future or anticipated appraisals was not conditioned on any agreement or understanding, written or otherwise, that I would report (or present analysis supporting) a predetermined specific value, a predetermined minimum value, a range or direction in value, a value that favors the cause of
any party,


or the attainment of a specific result or occurrence of a specific subsequent event (such as approval of a pending mortgage loan application).

My question to you remains: If you are appraising a property for sale and receive a contract for purchase with the purchase price on the contract, do decline the order?

There is no difference Mike of saying that a desktop appraisal performed by the appraiser for a loan officer before accepting an assignment for a full appraisal is any different than the loan officer sending the contract with a price. Could we not make that argument that the "wink-wink" to hit the number is there as well? IF you are going to stand on this high horse, practically accusing appraisers here, many of whom I have great respect for, of being unethical, lets see your own ethics Mike. Do you accept those assignments?

Mike, I do not think there is an appraiser here who would disagree with you that there is a problem. Where we disagree is on what the problem is. Up there in the northeast, Washington DC has banned hand guns for years, they are illegal and not supposed to be in that town. So, why do they have the highest murder rate with hand guns? Because criminals do not care what the laws say. They are going to be and act like criminals.

We have a perfectly reasonable current USPAP and the response from the ASB was dead on. We have tools available to us now as appraisers that allow us to provide our clients with the services they want and need (and are willing to pay for). What we also have is a "criminal" segment of the our population. They are acting unethically and I think we will see some go to jail for acting criminally. The problem is not the law Mike. Its fine. The problem is the criminal. Go after them, not the law.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Bill - Question asked twice answered twice in post 644.

Perhaps you missed "I have been, am, will remain USPAP compliant....." Do I accept ANY orders with a recommended, requested, or minimum estimated value - no. Do I accept purchase assignments and review a Contract (if available during the normal course of business) AFTER the Appraisal is completed - yes. Do I care one iota what the Contract Price is - no. Does it have ANY impact on my opinions of value - HELL NO. Never has, never will. The Market does. Are there literally thousands of (a)ppraisers who CANNOT appraise UNLESS supplied with the Contract Price or a "SUGGESTED" BULLSEYE - HELL yes.

Proven compliance does not diminish personal and professional recommendations and desires to change a broken system nor prevent starting or contributing to "controversial" threads which challenge the Status Quo. Nor does it stifle suggesting sorely needed revisions to a Federal Law and the USPAP which permit (i.e. ao-19) "raw sales" which DO demonstrate a Range of Values = an appraisal when delivered by a licensed appraiser and not "just research", and advance estimates of value, ltv ratios on orders, and delivering the BULLSEYE on a silver platter via Contract Review INCLUDING a sale price.

Independent and Objective - Hogwash.

 

[Offshore]

Up there in the northeast, Washington DC has banned hand guns for years, they are illegal and not supposed to be in that town. So, why do they have the highest murder rate with hand guns? Because criminals do not care what the laws say.

Potts it’s interesting you use the handgun analogy. Based on your previous posts you favor that mortgage brokers have every right to conceal and carry permits for any sidearm they choose, while disallowing appraisers the same right while further advocating that appraisers wear handcuffs and be reprimanded if said appraiser objects to the MB brandishing a weapon. The M grapevine must love you.

 

[Michigan CG]

...... We are a pimple....

I have been reduced to a skin ailment of teenagers.....

 

[Bill_FL]

Potts it’s interesting you use the handgun analogy. Based on your previous posts you favor that mortgage brokers have every right to conceal and carry permits for any sidearm they choose, while disallowing appraisers the same right while further advocating that appraisers wear handcuffs and be reprimanded if said appraiser objects to the MB brandishing a weapon. The M grapevine must love you.

Offshore - nope. You have read it wrong. The analogy used is simply one that criminal will be criminals. Are you going to accuse PE of being an addict since he used a drug analogy earlier?

How do you come up with that I want appraisers handcuffed? What I have said here is that appraisers have a broad range of services they can provide to clients. They can do them ethically too. Who I want handcuffed are the criminals. Appraisers, MB's, LO's, all of them. We do not need more or more restrictive laws. We simply need the existing laws enforced.

Now - moderators - Posts such as Mr. or Mrs. Offshore's, who post with anonimty and throw insults around - I find highly offensive.

 

[Fred]

The M grapevine must love you.

Never missing a chance to cast an aspersion.