July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[Lee Lansford]

Hmmm!!! If they don't know themselves by now, then every one of them should resign. If ya want to sit in the big chairs then ya better know what needs to be done.

Sandy, first and foremost, there is not an honest and competent appraiser (particularly those who regularly provide appraisals for residential lending) who is not aware of the problems associated with our profession. However, it is appraisers (and, a large number by my estimate) who, either due to lack of ethics or their own ignorance, are in great part responsible for the mess we find outselves in.

We don't need one more "rule" for appraisers to adhere to, we just need appraisers to adhere to what has already been "promulgated". I've mentioned the following a few times in this thread, but short of assigning a "USPAP cop" to accompany each and every appraiser, I'm uncertain what TAF and USPAP can do to make the situation better.

You (and others) have received good advice from at least 3 AQB Certified USPAP Instructors (and, a few others, by my estimation, who are very well-qualified to speak to the USPAP etc.); 1 of the 3 also happens to be the former Chair of the ASB and--among people who have a good perspective on things--is a very well-respected person within our profession.

OK...pretend that you are sitting in one of the "big chairs" as a member of the ASB...can you provide us with the Top 3 Things that you would implement to improve the profession? Now, remember, no "pie-in-the-sky" sort of stuff ("I mandate 'peace on earth'").

Lee

 

[George Hatch]

Why do people insist on feeding the pet troll?

I suppose there is some entertainment value.

As I understand the term, a "troll" is someone who posts inflammatory blatherskite for the sole purpose of riling everyone else up. I don't see our loyal opposition in this thread as coming anywhere near that.

They are expressing a viewpoint that a lot of appraisers share. They're sick and tired of the uneven playing field and the corruption that's involved when dealing with clients who are know they have options when it comes to appraisers and who won't hesitate to exercise those options to get what they want. They can see a wrong and they want some help in making things right.

Who among us does not share that same frustration? We're all unhappy with the fact that some of our clients and some of our donkeys are abusing us.


Where we're in dispute is in trying to identify the realities of the problem itself and any solutions to that problem. That's why the one side of the discussion is focusing on the non-standard labels being used for the actions and services being performed, while the other side of the discussion is focusing on the actions and services themselves to the exclusion of those non-standard labels.

That's why when we lay down the challenge to make that precise cut without also taking away other legitimate and allowable services, many of them express the sentiment that the ASB should act like a good spouse - "if you really loved me you'd know what I want without me having to spell it out."

Where that breaks down is that in a realm where standards have to be enforced, the first step to acheiving that is writing them specifically enough so they can be enforced. On the one hand we don't want to limit the flexibility that appraisers need to provide a wide range of services, but on the other hand we don't want to provide the guilty with an avenue for escape. That's a difficult line to draw, and thus far nobody has been able to draw it more clearly than has already been drawn.

 

[William K]

They are expressing a viewpoint that a lot of appraisers share. They're sick and tired of the uneven playing field and the corruption that's involved when dealing with clients who are know they have options when it comes to appraisers and who won't hesitate to exercise those options to get what they want. They can see a wrong and they want some help in making things right.

Who among us does not share that same frustration? We're all unhappy with the fact that some of our clients and some of our donkeys are abusing us. quote]

 

[Offshore]

I wonder if some of the opinions here would change if suddenly those 10,000 felons from Florida began reappearing as commercial LOs and demanded staged assignments based on their understanding of AO-19. Would the esoteric ones remain so unwavering in their views if it affected their livelihood directly?

 

[Stone]

I wonder if some of the opinions here would change if suddenly those 10,000 felons from Florida began reappearing as commercial LOs and demanded staged assignments based on their understanding of AO-19. Would the esoteric ones remain so unwavering in their views if it affected their livelihood directly?

I would guess those opinions would remain the same. For some reason you are equating these opinions with a belief that those who hold them don't get that there is a problem. As has been noted (again and again and again...) there most definitely are problems. Unfortunately, TAF cannot solve them all for you.

And, there is nothing esoteric about these opinions. The fact that the writers of USPAP cannot solve all of your problems isn't difficult to understand. It certainly isn't a concept that I would call esoteric.

 

[Fred]

I wonder if some of the opinions here would change if suddenly those 10,000 felons from Florida began reappearing as commercial LOs and demanded staged assignments based on their understanding of AO-19. Would the esoteric ones remain so unwavering in their views if it affected their livelihood directly?

Mine wouldn't. USPAP says what it says. BTW, in USPAP appraising the same property twice is two assignments, not one "staged" assignment. As to would I argue USPAP says what it says, even if I were losing business to less ethical competition, yes I would. In fact, I am. However, I reject that I among the "esoteric."

As to whether a person who has paid his or her debt to society, gone through the "correctional" system and has been relaeased apparently "corrected" should be allowed to get a mortgage broker license - might make an interesting discussion in another thread.

I speculate that none of us is happy that the marketplace is clobbering residential mortgage appraisal practice. Even though I am not in that end of the business, it used to be a safety net that I feel is now lost for me.

 

[Fred]

As I understand the term, a "troll" is someone who posts inflammatory blatherskite for the sole purpose of riling everyone else up. I don't see our loyal opposition in this thread as coming anywhere near that.

Exactly. It's regular, old blatherskite.

(Sorry, George, that's just some lingo I picked up in my brief stint in the phrenology business - and besides, there aren't many left that O'Reilly hasn't scoffed up already).

 

[George Hatch]

I wonder if some of the opinions here would change if suddenly those 10,000 felons from Florida began reappearing as commercial LOs and demanded staged assignments based on their understanding of AO-19. Would the esoteric ones remain so unwavering in their views if it affected their livelihood directly?

The lender pressure issue (which is where lies the root of the comp check debate) affects our livlihoods directly. That pressure just comes in different forms.

The pressure doesn't have to manifest itself at the outset; these clients often wait until we already have a lot of time and effort in the assignment before they start applying the screws. A corrupt client usually just votes with their feet and takes their business to our donkeys. Thus, we might get the first assignment but it's also the last, and there are a lot fewer clients for commercial assignments than there are for residential assignments.


What makes our situation a little different than yours is that a much larger percentage of the assignments are directly engaged by the lender whose money is going out the door. We don't have nearly as large a wholesale trade as does the residential end and these loans are mostly held onsite in the lenders' portfolios. That, and the federal banking regulators actually read those appraisals for content. There's a lot more accountability at a direct lender and they leave a paper trail for most everything they do.

It used to be this way for residential, too. That's why some of us are arguing that cutting the MBs out of the appraisal engagement loop will do more to stop the blatant comp check requests than trying to hack at the symptom of the problem by attacking labels.

The other big difference for commercial appraisers is that we were mostly smart enough to show some restraint when times were good; we didn't bring in a bunch of trainees and flood our own market with a bunch of new appraisers. That's why our clients don't have nearly as many options with commercial appraisal assignments as with residential.

We still have to be willing to say no as required and we still suffer from some unfair competition at the hands of our donkeys who decline to hold the line. The commercial end of the appraisal business has a lot of problems with its idiots, too. Our problems just aren't compounded by the gross oversupply of appraisers that you guys have.

 

[George Hatch]

BTW, I still do perform residential appraisals from time to time. I'm just not dependent on them and I avoid dealing with mortgage brokers. That's why I don't have to deal with comp check requests.

 

[SANDY]

So let's discuss some of you folks' solutions--

First one--the good ole geee if appraisers would just say no there would be no problem!!!!

Nope, even a lowly trainee knows that dog won't hunt so ya'll can keep on standing behind that one all you want but it is more unrealistic than anything I have been saying.

Number 2- some say we need to focus on changes at the state level some say the Congress should make changes, some say this and that other agency should do something. Good luck on that one too.

Number 3- some say that the regulators of the lenders/users should make the changes.. LOL to that one--don't hold your breath.

Number 4- some say the hvcc was the answer-- nope that's not it.

Number 5- some say create a government entity for all appraisal orders to go through. Nope that's not it.

Number 6-some say take the authority to order appraisals from the users of our appraisals. Nope fat chance of them giving up that control.

And on and on and on as each idea is poo pooed!!!

My suggestion is that-assuming TAF's major objective to protect the public interest in this game and that USPAP is promulgated to regulate the appraiser part of the entire process--then let's pass some regulations like the re-addressing issue that are pre-emptive strikes against the bad guys. Yes there are also implementation and enforcement and other pitfalls to that type of a solution but darn it let's try. If nothing else it would serve to improve our image in this whole mess and it would be better than sitting on the sidelines.

So I challenge all of you just like you challenge me to post what specific changes I am talking about to------- post your perfect solution if your so smart. Every agency involved in this whole process has the duty and obligation to step up and do their part and if you call the recent Q&A doing TAF's part then I am following on the floor laughing right now!

I find it harde to believe that you folks don't get what I am trying to say-take off your darn blinders-my solution is not perfect but neither are any of yours. At least mine would help clean up our own house before we go calling someone else's filthy.