July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[William K]

As I understand the term, a "troll" is someone who posts inflammatory blatherskite for the sole purpose of riling everyone else up. I don't see our loyal opposition in this thread as coming anywhere near that.

They are expressing a viewpoint that a lot of appraisers share. They're sick and tired of the uneven playing field and the corruption that's involved when dealing with clients who are know they have options when it comes to appraisers and who won't hesitate to exercise those options to get what they want. They can see a wrong and they want some help in making things right.

Who among us does not share that same frustration? We're all unhappy with the fact that some of our clients and some of our donkeys are abusing us.


Where we're in dispute is in trying to identify the realities of the problem itself and any solutions to that problem. That's why the one side of the discussion is focusing on the non-standard labels being used for the actions and services being performed, while the other side of the discussion is focusing on the actions and services themselves to the exclusion of those non-standard labels.

That's why when we lay down the challenge to make that precise cut without also taking away other legitimate and allowable services, many of them express the sentiment that the ASB should act like a good spouse - "if you really loved me you'd know what I want without me having to spell it out."

Where that breaks down is that in a realm where standards have to be enforced, the first step to acheiving that is writing them specifically enough so they can be enforced. On the one hand we don't want to limit the flexibility that appraisers need to provide a wide range of services, but on the other hand we don't want to provide the guilty with an avenue for escape. That's a difficult line to draw, and thus far nobody has been able to draw it more clearly than has already been drawn.

MY BOLD

And there in lies the dilemma!
Do we impose greater restriction by outright Outlawing any service other than a complete appraisal, period? Do we attempt to further define what an appraisal is in hopes that some of those in our profession will finally understand what they are doing is wrong?

My issue with the Q&A is not intent. It is wording. I may not have the answer to the perfect statement , but I also know when I see a statement (through the published Q&A) that opens up a number of new interpretations.

I had a teacher that always used to say
"In a Free Society, restrictions are never a good thing"

 

[Ken B]

Do we attempt to further define what an appraisal is in hopes that some of those in our profession will finally understand what they are doing is wrong?

Knowing and caring are two different things.

Anyone who has taken a USPAP course understands that conveying an opinion of value, range of values, or direction of value is an appraisal when that opinion is provided by an appraiser.

Those that convey that opinion without complying with the requirements of USPAP don't care.

No amount of regulation, law, clarification, FAQ, or any other guidance will make those that don't care change their ways.

The same way that no amount of clarification, FAQ, or any other guidance will change the minds of those that think there is only one way to develop and report an opinion of value.

Both extremes of the spectrum are a discredit to the profession.

 

[SANDY]

Knowing and caring are two different things.

Anyone who has taken a USPAP course understands that conveying an opinion of value, range of values, or direction of value is an appraisal when that opinion is provided by an appraiser.

Those that convey that opinion without complying with the requirements of USPAP don't care.

No amount of regulation, law, clarification, FAQ, or any other guidance will make those that don't care change their ways.

The same way that no amount of clarification, FAQ, or any other guidance will change the minds of those that think there is only one way to develop and report an opinion of value.

Both extremes of the spectrum are a discredit to the profession.

And where is your perfect solution!!!

 

[Ken B]

There is none.

 

[Fred]

So let's discuss some of you folks' solutions-

Are these "solutions" or just trade-offs?

One proposal is you can't appraise the same property twice. Let's put aside that some of work small markets and that we have appraised some properties five times, and that like other creative work, the real profit is selling the same data more than once. Like Steven King doesn't make a living selling one copy of The Shining.

And forget that in condemnation, they need you to re-appraise the properties over and over, every time the planners tell the engineers to move the line, or move it back, or every time some property owner explains that there is a underground storage tank that wasn't on the blueprint, or ever year because it took five years of negotiating to ge this through to where they finally decided to file the taking.

Let's play in your little corner of the game. You do a residential mortgage appraisal and note some deferred maintenance, make some condition adjustments. The bank calls back and asks what the property would be worth if the deferrals were cured, should the just add back the condition adjustments and average the comps, should they just add the contractor's cure cost to your value? It won't matter that you can figure out that answer in a tenth of a second, if you tell them, you just developed and communicated a second appraisal. The no-appraising-twice-for-the-same-client rule, for example, is insane. And that is the main obstacle for trying to add another rule (in addition to the Ethics Rule) making "bad" comp checks stop - well - that and the fact that there is discussion about making new rules to impede people who don't follow them anyway.

Now, it is not that I am saying there is no such thing as a "problem," but that is an idea of how solving the "problem" of comp checks would create even more "problems," wreaking havoc on everyone who hasn't decided to limited himself or herself to one narrow segment of appraisal practice that some of you have chosen.

The Maginot line solved a problem, didn't it. And every one of these things you are ranting about has a cost, and to a large extent because of lack of experience with the many types of property and intended uses, most residential appraisers don't know what those costs are. If you could keep you "solutions" in your neck of the woods, then I'd only have to worry about you blowing yourself up, and not about you taking me with you.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

And where is your perfect solution!!!

There is no perfect solution, and if perfection is what you seek, you will fail.

Enforcement of existing laws, and some new regulations on the middleman in the loan process, in particular with management companies and MBs, is necessary.

My own personal solution is simply to not deal with unethical folks and provide appraisal services to professionals that need such services. It pays better, there is less aggravation, and much less liability.

 

[Ken B]

My own personal solution is simply to not deal with unethical folks and provide appraisal services to professionals that need such services. It pays better, there is less aggravation, and much less liability.

Also known as the "Just say No" approach.

It's not the "perfect" solution, but it is probably the best solution.

 

[PL1957]

So let's discuss some of you folks' solutions--

First one--the good ole geee if appraisers would just say no there would be no problem!!!!

Nope, even a lowly trainee knows that dog won't hunt so ya'll can keep on standing behind that one all you want but it is more unrealistic than anything I have been saying.

Whether you like it or not, that is the only solution to the "lender pressure" problem. Contrary to your assertions, that dog does hunt and it hunts pretty darn well. If your clients are demanding comp checks and you are providing them to stay in business, you have some pretty significant problems that the AF isn't going to be able to solve for you.

 

[Lee Lansford]

I wonder if some of the opinions here would change if suddenly those 10,000 felons from Florida began reappearing as commercial LOs and demanded staged assignments based on their understanding of AO-19. Would the esoteric ones remain so unwavering in their views if it affected their livelihood directly?

In the hands of competent and ethical appraisers, no problem-o.

In the hands of those appraisers who occupy the sewer of our profession, problem.

 

[Lee Lansford]

And where is your perfect solution!!!

Do you mean something other than putting me in charge of EVERYTHING?