July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[Fred]

I have no reluctance to challenge a claim of "neutral" based upon the rest of the posted assertion. No personal crap - just the facts based on your post. :icon_idea:

So, go ahead. While you are at it, try facing up to the challenge none of the naysayers will go anywhere near. Just show me the proposed language that excises only unethical so-called "comp checks" and doesn't otherwise make a mess out of normal, legitimate business.

 

[Kevin Mc]

Instructors course for everyone? There's no way. The last I heard, the pass rate for the people who had already been teaching it was only ~50%. You're talking about whittling the entire appraisal profession down by at least that much. Half the people on this thread wouldn't make that cut, and they're all more savvy than many of the appraisers who come through my courses.

You state this like it is a bad thing. Make up a USPAP instructors "light" exam.I am a firm believer that half of those out there doing appraisal assignments today would have a hard time even telling what the acronym USPAP stands for let alone citing a Standard or two.

 

[DTB]

My car won't start so I take it to a mechanic's shop. He tries the key and hears the starter click, but not turn over. he tries the battery to see if there's enough charge, which there is. The mechanic tells me he thinks it might be my starter, but he won't know for sure until he gets to it, and then gives me an estimate based on that opinion.

If he calls me up an hour later and tells me that in addition to the starter I also need a new ignition coil and that's going to cost extra. Am I supposed to get belligerant that he didn't see that during his initial process? Of course not. He told me (or I already knew) that his initial opinion was based on a process that had some limitations, and that a subsequent and more comprehensive analysis might reveal more information.

Excellent analogy George, as read by one with 4 ASE certs back in the day. No one needs to get beligerent with anyone, it's counterproductive IMO.

That mechanic who diagnoses and quotes that way is very similar to the comp checker. Diagnosis is where the money is made in the garage, not swapping parts. Poor or incomplete diagnosis certainly leads to unmet expectations and dissatisfied customers.

Assumptions and disclaimers aside, unless something material arise which you had no reasonable way of anticipating, I would expect the full boat to very near the first utterance of a number.

 

[Offshore]

I am wondering how you could enforce that. I have money. I want to make a mortgage loan. I trust certain appraisers and don't trust others. Why would I even consider letting you force an appraiser on me?

Now that is funny. It reminds me of the guy who goes appraiser shopping before deciding who will put him upside in a loan down to pay for a vacation.

 

[George Hatch]

Whenever attempts are made at changing existing laws in Amsterdam’s red light district, those who are benefiting valiantly defend the status quo and impugn those who wish to change any statutes. It is the law.

I'd like to address this point. Regardless of which side of the line one falls on these laws, they remain the law until such time as society decides otherwise.

This is where the conflicts between the activists the contructionists comes from. With respect to the requirements, the activists are all about "what should be", whereas the constructionists are about "what is". This is the same dividing line between the two sides in this discussion.

I don't have to impugn anyone on the activist side in order to tell them that they can't read limitations and restrictions into USPAP that aren't there.

Contrary to the (apparently growing) perceptions of some of you on the activist side of this discussion, USPAP has not moved away from you. The principles and concepts that provide the foundation for the appraisal standards that are embodied in USPAP predate the S&L crises of the 1980s and appraiser licensing, they predate any of the existing appraisal organizations and they predate the government's requirements for lenders to obtain appraisals for mortgage lending. I've seen one of the earlier versions of written appraisal standards and although some of the verbiage is different the underlying principles are all there and they're all recognizable as having been passed down from at least the date of that publication in 1929 through to 2008 USPAP.

So those of you who seem to be intent on blaming the ASB for somehow selling you out would be well advised to line your evidence up as to exactly when that break occurred. You may have to indict some of the appraisal academics of the 1920s and 1930s in order to make your case; and I can tell you that if you're going to impugn their motives you might as well retire as an appraiser because they're the ones who literally wrote the book on everything you do today.

 

[Fred]

I'd like to address this point. Regardless of which side of the line one falls on these laws, they remain the law until such time as society decides otherwise.

But George, this is like the REAB thread. None of the facts or law support what certain people want. What else to they have left, but to make believe it's an epic moral battle between good and evil, and anyone who disagrees with them must be evil. Look at the title of this thread, "wink, wink." That's why it's funny when the moderators chime in for everyone to cool it, when the inflamatory rhetoric started with the post title. There was already the implication that anyone who didn't take the OP's side, was partaking in something crooked. So, if comp checks are really "illegal," and USPAP really permits this, then the ASB must be immoral - isn't that what we have been reading?

Now that is funny. It reminds me of the guy who goes appraiser shopping before deciding who will put him upside in a loan down to pay for a vacation.

Not really. If I wanted to be upside down, I'd be a residential appraiser.

Appaiser shopping was the whole point of licensing wasn't it? So people could "shop" better, and we could say, they are just "realtors," they can't be trusted. We are the "licensed" appraisers, therefore we can be trusted. So, don't send your REO work to them.

Some of you are just mad because the public is so much better at shopping than you are at selling. This is the US. You think, if you could just get rid of those pesky "comp checks." It's easy. Ban the free market.

 

[George Hatch]

Assumptions and disclaimers aside, unless something material arise which you had no reasonable way of anticipating, I would expect the full boat to very near the first utterance of a number.

Reasonable expectations are where it's at.

 

[DTB]

Reasonable expectations are where it's at.

However, they are my reasonable expectations- as the client that really matter.

 

[Joyce Potts]

If you really want to read something gut wrenching, go to Broker's Outpost. The comp check PRACTICE is not only alive and well, but THRIVING!!

This is what 18 years of dumbing down and lax enforcement has done.

How can a 3 year suspended appraiser currently be operating/running/managing an appraisal office with one certified and three trainees?

Scrap USPoop and start over, only this time with f e e l i n g and some teeth.

http://www.brokeroutpost.com/loans/brokers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=232679

 

[Fred]

Scrap USPoop and start over, only this time with f e e l i n g and some teeth.

Better scrap the whole country. Those who write the rules are supposed to be separate from those who do the biting.